Confessionator741 Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Deliver me from Swedish furniture. Deliver me from perfect teeth. You are not the car you drive. You are not the contents of your wallet. These are words to live by. The less we have the more we can devote to Him. Hence the vows of poverty. With material goods come the responsibilities of having material goods. The worries, the what-to-do-withs and such. When you have nothing (or not much) to worry about you can truly be effective. And look what you can do when you are truly being effective. I think that's what Fight Club is saying. And don't have the clam chowder. amesome, pure amesomeness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Did CMom say that a friar is buddhist? I was commenting on Richard's quote and C-Mom was disputing my comment. So, I am assuming she thinks Richard's quote is correct . . . and if she thinks that, then my logical conclusion is that she believes mendicant friars are like that quote . . . And then, yes, it would seem that the suggestion is that the Mendicant Friar becomes a buddhist . . . Buddhists believe that you have to seperate yourself completely from the material world and seek enlightenment in another world. That's not the Christian method. For the Christian, happiness is found only in another world but it is found by embracing this world. We are not Manicheans. The material is not our enemy. We do not seek to live in a spiritual sphere away from the material. That's exactly what the Spiritualist Franciscans (heretics) were condemned for. They thought that the material world was bad and only the spiritual was good and that's why they were francsicans. But they distorted something very basic. Francis wasn't interested in abandoning the world, only in realizing that as much as he loved it (Loved it like a brother) it wasn't enough and he would rather not posess any of it, so that all of it could belong to him . . . and he to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Blazer we still don't get it. we are saying the same thing. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 So, BLAZEr… you are saying materialism is a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Blazer we still don't get it. we are saying the same thing. :D I hope :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 "Therefore the rest of existance is his possession." Think about the ramifications of this, Lounge Daddy, and you will see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 It depends how you use that world LD . . . if by materialism you mean that happiness is found in owning a lot of things, then No, I don't think Materialism is a good thing . . . However, if by materialism we mean that the material world, and all it contains, is in fact a good thing, even a means for our sanctification, then yes. God created all of it, even the fancy sports car . . . its not a bad thing . . . it's just not perfect Joy . . . but it is part of Joy. Ah, now there is a Franciscan Concept, Perfect Joy . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 (edited) All of what you just said Blaze was contained in my one line:Therefore the rest of existance is his possession." Edited February 8, 2004 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Yeah C-Mom . . . I figured we were seeing eye to eye . . . but it does bother me to see a perspective that seems "anti-material" because Christ is material. Becasue he is still encountered in the material. Becasue all of existence, even the shiny things, the too many things, the excess, all of it reflects him . . . So, especially when Francis is quoted, I get a little touchy to make sure we're not "spiritualizing" our existence or seperating ourselves from the material like Buddhists . . . For a Catholic the most profound act of God is not our salvation, but the Incarnation. That's very different than what our seperated brethren and non-Christians believe. But that's the fundamental understanding of Catholic Theology . . . everything is seen through the eyes of the Incarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 One of the first books I ever read was "The little Flowers" of St Francis. I have been a franciscan/benedictine hybrid for over 40 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Kinda like Dorothy Day, huh? I bet you love the Little Flower too . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 St Theresa....How did you guess? My daughter is the fourth generation to have that name in honor of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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