"mother" Mary

[jeffpugh]

In addition to Thessalonian's statement. I learned from Chris Padgett this weekend that Mary co-operates with Christ in answering prayers. note the prefix "co" which means that she's not the main person. Furthermore, she is not a separate entity that mediates to Christ for us, but, in and through Christ she is a mediator. In other words, getting to know her brings you right to Christ. Mary is like the moon, and Christ is the sun. She reflects the love of Christ, she is only illuminated by the source, who is Her Son who she nurtured.

[jeffpugh]

bump up... I'll try and get Heshmafluff back on here... he's quite busy though...

[Cure of Ars]

[quote name='heshmafluff' post='1332706' date='Jul 17 2007, 03:15 PM']I talked to my Pastor and he pointed out Revelation 22:18[/quote]

Catholics are not adding anything to the Bible because Apostolic Tradition is in Scripture...


"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." 2 Thessalonians 2:15

There could be many reasons why Jesus chose to give Mary the grace to be free from sin. Jesus fulfills the commandments perfectly. The Bible says to honor your father and your mother. Jesus honored Mary perfectly by giving her the gift of being totally united to him from her conception tell now. If I had the power, I would honor my mother with the same gift.

[Ave Maria Totus Tuus]

This is one of the most informative and friendly debates I've ever read on phatmass. Thanks to everyone's questions and responses, I'm learning a lot!!

[Akalyte]

in old testament times, to touch something holy while "un-holy" or stained, death would result. Mary could not have held God in flesh if she wasnt made pure and "special". She had to be made pure and holy in order to hold God in her womb. How hard is that to understand? We honor her. not worship.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Cure of Ars' post='1356252' date='Aug 11 2007, 01:03 AM']Catholics are not adding anything to the Bible because Apostolic Tradition is in Scripture...
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." 2 Thessalonians 2:15

There could be many reasons why Jesus chose to give Mary the grace to be free from sin. Jesus fulfills the commandments perfectly. The Bible says to honor your father and your mother. Jesus honored Mary perfectly by giving her the gift of being totally united to him from her conception tell now. If I had the power, I would honor my mother with the same gift.[/quote]
I haven't heard the latter argument before. That's pretty awesome. Thanks for sharing that one.

[quote name='Ave Maria Totus Tuus' post='1356342' date='Aug 11 2007, 01:51 AM']This is one of the most informative and friendly debates I've ever read on phatmass. Thanks to everyone's questions and responses, I'm learning a lot!!

[/quote]
Amen. Heshmafluff and I have some pretty good ones (though most were one on one), though this one has been one of the best.

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1356539' date='Aug 11 2007, 01:07 PM']in old testament times, to touch something holy while "un-holy" or stained, death would result. Mary could not have held God in flesh if she wasnt made pure and "special". She had to be made pure and holy in order to hold God in her womb. How hard is that to understand? We honor her. not worship.[/quote]
Good insight, Acolyte.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[i]Hail, Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God[/i] by Scott Hahn. An amazing book. It was only after reading it that I saw by how much I underestimated the meaning and significance of Marian devotion.

I haven't read through the whole thread, so perhaps somebody has already recommended this book. If so, I apologise.

[Guest bloominjoy]

just my .02 worth and don't know if it will help any.Willing to try though.Genesis says that God would put enmity between the woman(Mary)and Satan.Now it seems to me that would have to be TOTAL enmity.That is sinless.
It can't be that hard to conceive God creating a sinless human.He created Adam and Eve in innocence.They were sinless.He created the angels and the ones that didn't fall are sinless.
So there have been sinless creatures including human.At least until the fall.
Jesus created His own mother. I am sure that He would have created her sinless.
I can't comprehend that He would not want her anywhere but heaven.I also can't comprehend that Jesus Incarante (God)would become totally part of a human being unless this person were sinless.
So Jesus redeemed us before we committed sin (We weren't even born when He died on the cross)so if Redemption can be applied to us after we sin-i have no problem with accepting that Mary was redeemed at conception-before she would have the chance to sin.
We're redeemed after.Why not before then?
That's like saying God can't.I know if i were capable of creating my own mother(and of course that's impossible)and i could create her sinless-i would.What more could you want for your own mother?

Now take a look at this passage from the Book of Revelation.Note the very last verse.The woman referred to here is Mary. Now the last verse speaks about her offspring-meaning children.That is,she is our mother.
You may want to read it several times,but you catch the part about this in the very last verse.The child is Jesus of course-so the woman has to be Mary.
1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman 2 clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
2
She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. 3
3
Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, 4 with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems.
4
Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth.
5
She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. 5 Her child was caught up to God and his throne.
6
The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days. 6
7
7 Then war broke out in heaven; Michael 8 and his angels battled against the dragon. The dragon and its angels fought back,
8
but they did not prevail and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
9
The huge dragon, the ancient serpent, 9 who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world, was thrown down to earth, and its angels were thrown down with it.
10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have salvation and power come, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Anointed. For the accuser 10 of our brothers is cast out, who accuses them before our God day and night.
11
They conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; love for life did not deter them from death.
12
Therefore, rejoice, you heavens, and you who dwell in them. But woe to you, earth and sea, for the Devil has come down to you in great fury, for he knows he has but a short time."
13
When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.
14
But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, 11 so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year.
15
The serpent, 12 however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current.
16
But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth.
17
[b]Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commandments and bear witness to Jesus. [/b]13 (18) It took its position 14 on the sand of the sea.