Emigrating From The United States

[Socrates]

Interesting posts.

I'm not much of a traveler, and I can't give much in the way of practical advice or recommendations, but imo it seems leaving one's country should be more for a positive reason, and not simply trying to run away from America's real or perceived problems. From your post, it really doesn't look like you have much of plan.
If you're serious, and if feasible, I'd probably take Rod's advice and do some serious travel first.

It seems sometimes Americans can have a somewhat naive view of the rest of the world, seeing it as somehow free of America's problems and evils (sort of the opposite of jingoism). There are serious problems in pretty much every part of the world, and in most places life is harder than in the U.S. (And keep in mind there is a reason people from all over the world flock to the U.S., rather than vice-versa.)

Of course whether you leave the country or not is totally your decision, but I think generally someone should have a serious and positive reason for permanently leaving one's homeland. Do you have a particularly strong love for a particular foreign country or culture, or do you have something particular you wish to do there?
If your primary motivation is one of escape, you might question your plan.
(Though a Hillary Clinton presidency might make such a move quite tempting.)

[Resurrexi]

I'd love to emigrate to Ireland or the UK or even France someday...

[Era Might]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1315743' date='Jul 6 2007, 09:12 PM']I'm not much of a traveler, and I can't give much in the way of practical advice or recommendations, but imo it seems leaving one's country should be more for a positive reason, and not simply trying to run away from America's real or perceived problems. From your post, it really doesn't look like you have much of plan.[/quote]
No, I wouldn't leave because of America's problems. I fully expect to find even more problems in other countries (at least the countries where I would want to live). If it is material comfort and safety that guide my decision, I would absolutely stay in the United States. But it's a matter of culture and happiness. I don't have a plan, it's not something I'm planning to do tommorow. It's just a general idea that I'm thinking about for the future.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1315743' date='Jul 6 2007, 09:12 PM']Do you have a particularly strong love for a particular foreign country or culture, or do you have something particular you wish to do there?
If your primary motivation is one of escape, you might question your plan.[/quote]
Yes, I do have a particular area of the world in mind, and an idea of how I may be able to work there when the time comes.

[Didacus]

10 years ago I never would have left Canada in my wildest dreams.

But I've grown older, and wiser. I've come to realize that Canada isn't all that it seemed to be when I was young. Reality sunk in.

10 years ago, I would never have thought that today I would seriously consider moving to the US! I seriously have though, and for many reasons and I'm still thinking about it.

I've thought of Poland a bit too.

What I fear is a lot of what Rod talked about, that if I leave 'home', I might never find home again, not the way I know it now anyways. I know I could adjust and become a 'citizen of the world' in fact I think I would like it very much. The real concern is that I have children, and I owe them a home, and I can't wager on them loving being a 'citizen of the world'. I'll wait till they leave home, and then maybe. 'Till then its a Canadien's life for me.

PS: Rod, anytime you find your way to Northern Ontario look me up, you're welcomed anytime.

Smiles all around.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1315770' date='Jul 6 2007, 08:26 PM']No, I wouldn't leave because of America's problems. I fully expect to find even more problems in other countries (at least the countries where I would want to live). If it is material comfort and safety that guide my decision, I would absolutely stay in the United States. But it's a matter of culture and happiness. I don't have a plan, it's not something I'm planning to do tommorow. It's just a general idea that I'm thinking about for the future.[/quote]

Very wise reply.
"safety" is what guides my decision for my children's sake. But if it was for an adventure, darn it all I'd already be on the road.

If you do go somewhere, make certain you have a 'fall back' plan in case things don't work out, like a relative(s) who know where you are with a big of cash 'just in case' sorta thing.

[Sojourner]

Rod that was a great post ... makes me want to travel abroad for the next 30 years or so!

Era ... I have to say there are definitely attractions to living as an ex pat. It is something that has crossed my mind from time to time. I think the only way I would do it, though, is if I were married and my husband had the same wanderlust. Otherwise, I find I function best with familiar people and places around me. New places can be exhilarating, but there is nothing like being part of a community and putting down deep roots.

But I do see the attraction.

[Maddalena]

Glad to see someone feels the same way I do! Era Might, I've always felt what seems like a "calling" outside of the US. I just don't know where I'm being called (or if it is even a calling)! I don't hate America at all, and it is very beautiful (Tennessee and Virginia are to die for), but I want more of an old world beauty that I feel America doesn't have (since it's not very old). To me, the places that seem the most beautiful to me are Scotland, Norway, Switzerland, and Romania. I think I would like to go to Romania the most-- more specifically Transylvania. You beach lovers can have your beaches! I want mountains, light rain, and yes, emerald green trees peaking out of ubiquitous fog... that sounds like heaven to me (of course fog + rain + humidity = bad hair day for me!)

I would suggest visiting the place you are planning to live in (duh). Spend sometime there, and not just a couple of days. Really spend awhile there to see if you could get used to the country's idiosyncrasies and way of life, their food and ways they conduct business. The little things add up to make a place not worth the bother.


I hope this helps.

Edited July 7, 2007 by Maddalena

[T-Bone _]

The grass is always greener.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1314857' date='Jul 6 2007, 12:45 AM']With the holiday and all, I've been thinking about American society and culture, and I think I might prefer to live in another country. Has anyone here ever emigrated From the United States? There are a lot of things I love about America (my hometown, the English language, Hip Hop). But, I think I can take those elsewhere and be happier. I don't hate or even dislike America, but I don't have a strong emotional attachment either. Maybe I'll feel differently in 10 years, but I think I might give up my citizenship someday. That would be kind of weird not to be a US citizen, we'll see where that goes. I would want to stay in the Americas though (would not want to go to Europe, and probably not Canada).

The only real argument I can think of is that America is a modern nation which comes attached with many benefits. But is that really a reason not to emigrate? I guess it is, but if other people can live in poor countries, why shouldn't I? It feels kind of weird to think that I don't want to be an American, but a lot of people decide that they want to leave their country and become an American. It's not really that weird that I might want to leave America and become something else.

[/quote]
there must be a reason we have so many people trying to come to America and so few leaving it each year. Your U.S. citizenship is something you should hold onto until we get tired of you. It's more valuable than you know.

[tojo]

I sympathize, lately I've been wanting to move away from Michigan lately. probably just to another state, but even that isn't likely.

[Andreas E.]

I'm the other way around. I was born German and lived there until I got married and moved to the US. My wife is a US citizen and we actually got married in Germany and lived there for a while. She could not find work, though. She spoke German and had all the permits, but with unemployment in the double digits there was nothing there, so we moved here 11 years ago.

I have been back a few times, and Germany is no longer home. The language sounds funny. TV is funny. The roads are too narrow and the cars too small. It's almost like the old classic "Time Machine." I went back to the same places but they had changed. Or had I? Or both?

Anyway, living somewhere else is great, but be careful. Change happens slowly but time flies faster than you think. (Makes sense?)

As far as citizenship is concerned: do not give up your US citizenship. (Unless it's in the way of doing the Lord's work.)

Our daughters are dual citizens and will remain so forever, as they were born both. I on the other hand will lose my German citizenship once I become a US citizen, unless I jump through a bunch of bureaucratic hurdles and pay some huge fees and have convincing reasons that I would be at a disadvantage in one way or the other if I did not retain my German citizenship. Now, it's an easy choice for me as after 11 years nothing draws me back to Germany.

I would first visit. Not sure how old you are, but there are student exchange programs both at the high school and university level. A year abroad should give you a good idea if the greener side is truly greener. If you are gainfully employed (especially if so with one of the multinationals) find out if your company does worker exchanges. My brother-in-law was in the US for three months on such a program.

Anyway, there are plenty of ways to get a feel for another culture without having to burn bridges behind you. Go check them out.

[SJRod55]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1315847' date='Jul 7 2007, 04:10 AM']PS: Rod, anytime you find your way to Northern Ontario look me up, you're welcomed anytime.

Smiles all around.[/quote]

Thanks for the invite. I love Canada and believe it or not especially Winnipeg! Yes I lived in the frozen north lands of the US and would escape to the 'relative civilisation' of Winnipeg to see the then Jets - now in Phoenix! (See even they moved)

There are a lot of things to consider. DO NOT consider moving overseas if you think it will 'FIX' your marriage, or change your mid life crisis - it never works! Follow some of the advice here. Above all be prepared to 'go with the flow.' Everywhere goes by its own 'time' what happens in the USA in 5 minutes might take 5 days - or 5 weeks someplace else.

Sometimes, if you are single not have a clear plan can work. But at least know what you are going to do - a job! Other countries are 100% UN SUPPORTIVE if you end up there broke. Likewise the US Embassy will not look upon you with great favour. And talking of the US Embassy - check into what they can and cannot do for you BEFORE you leave....... you might be disappointed.

Good luck and do not give up on the idea. Follow your dream.

Rod

[SJRod55]

This article came up on the BBC now and it has some excellent point and ones that you do have to consider depending upon where you settle. Remember even your own back yard is subject to some of these incidents. Please do not take this article as discouragement but rather being aware of the possibilities. As I go through the adoption of Alex one of the largest threats is actually to him, of him being kidnapped before or immediately after his adpotions is finalized. The locals 'know' he is no longer one of 'them' and he has a price on his head. He has had a price for nearly a year now and by accounts of those 'in the know' that price is higher as each day goes by.


Helping expats evade kidnappers
By Paula Dear
BBC News



Kidnappers usually seek the easiest target, says trainer Mike Heron

The seizure of a three-year-old British girl in Nigeria this week has again brought the issue of the kidnapping of expatriates abroad to the fore. How can people protect themselves and their employees from the increasing risks?

The vast majority of kidnaps are carried out purely for cash, says UK-based security consultant Will Geddes.

"It's all about the money," adds Mr Geddes, whose company provides security training and kidnap and ransom negotiators.

Even where there are political motives for the kidnap, money will often change hands at the end of the day, he says.

As a result of the rising threat firms are spending increasing amounts of money on insuring against kidnap and ransom and on training and briefing staff when deploying them to risky countries, he says.

Although it is true to say that in many areas, such as Mexico, middle-class locals are more at risk than foreigners many firms still don't take the risks to expats seriously enough, he claims.

According to Mr Geddes, kidnaps have increased by about 70% in the last eight years. About 40% of those are company employees, some 28% are "wealthy people" and the rest are usually involved in family feuds, drugs or criminality, he says.

But obtaining reliable figures on the number and type of kidnappings across the world is near impossible because the vast majority - up to 90% Mr Geddes estimates - go unreported.


[b] GREATEST THREAT OF KIDNAP FOR EXPATRIATE WORKERS [/b]1: Iraq
2: Nigeria
3: Haiti
4: Colombia/[b]Mexico[/b]
5: Ecuador
6: Venezuela
7: Philippines
Source: ASI Global

One US security firm, Clayton Consultants, publishes a monthly kidnap monitor drawn from media reports.

June 2007's file runs to 26 pages, detailing kidnapping incidents and updates from all over the world.

They include Kenya, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Australia, China, India, Russia, Pakistan, the Philippines, Italy, Turkey, Iraq, the [b]US[/b], Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Guatemala, Honduras, Venezuela and Peru. And the list goes on.

But in kidnapping, as in most things, prevention is better than cure.

Any advisor will say that appearing conspicuously wealthy in a poor area or developing nation - bearing in mind that wealth is always relative - is simply a no-no.


[b]'Avoid patterns' [/b]
Ex-Royal Marine Mike Heron trains workers, including journalists, to stay safe in environments considered to be "hostile".

"The biggest factor in avoiding kidnap is lowering your profile, because you don't want to stand out. You will be seen as wealthy and to most people you probably are.

"So don't go round in big shiny vehicles - muddy them up, and get local plates if you can."

Much of his advice revolves around moving from A to B, the time when you are more likely to be snatched.

It includes trying to time your approach to traffic lights so you don't have to halt, not stopping at accidents unless you are in an area with lots of people, and keeping enough space between vehicles so you are never "sandwiched" between two cars and cannot escape.

"If you can see the wheels of the car in front of you then you have enough space to manoevre round them," he adds.

It is also vital not to allow patterns to creep into your daily life when living in risky areas, says Mr Heron.

"We don't realise how many patterns we get into - you get up, have your cereal, have a shower, leave the house at the same time, and before you know it your life is 90% the same."

Avoiding leaving home or the office at the same time each day and taking the same routes are some of the common-sense pointers he gives his trainees.

Taxis are also often quoted as a potential risk. The advice is to check the legitimacy of the company, avoid travelling from airports in the middle of the night and don't get into a car with more than one person.

This might even involve being "un-British" by making a fuss and getting out of the car if the driver stops to let someone in, says Mr Heron.

If the worst happens the most dangerous moment will be the "hit" or the "ambush", he says, when the kidnappers are filled with stress and fear.

At that moment the only option is to "just go along with it" and not try to run or fight, he says.

[b]'Easiest target' [/b]

The scale of the challenge being faced by multi-national corporations, NGOs and public sector organisations who are deploying personnel to high-risk destinations is huge in terms of cost and logistics.

Individual companies are often reluctant to share specific details of their own security policies and staff training.

And the truth is most firms will not want to the world to know when have suffered a kidnap, much less whether they have paid a ransom, says Mr Geddes.

"In the majority of corporate cases [of kidnap] money changes hands but the public doesn't get to know about it."

To avoid becoming a statistic just being well aware of the risks - no matter how experienced a traveller one is - is the best tool to possess against kidnapping, adds Mr Heron.

"If someone really wants to get you they probably will. But often they won't necessarily want you, they are just going for the easiest target.

"Just remember there are people out there who are ready to get you," he adds, before conceding that he does have a pessimistic streak.

"Even as you are putting together this article, someone is sitting in Nigeria and saying 'right, we need to abduct someone today'."

ENDS:



Basically you do not need to be rich to be kidnapped. The bottom line is you will be perceived to be rich just because you are Canadian, American or British and white! You might only have 20 dollars to your name but to some of these people YOU are Mr. Money. Beware

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1315743' date='Jul 7 2007, 02:12 AM']Interesting posts.

I'm not much of a traveler, and I can't give much in the way of practical advice or recommendations, but imo it seems leaving one's country should be more for a positive reason, and not simply trying to run away from America's real or perceived problems. From your post, it really doesn't look like you have much of plan.
If you're serious, and if feasible, I'd probably take Rod's advice and do some serious travel first.

It seems sometimes Americans can have a somewhat naive view of the rest of the world, seeing it as somehow free of America's problems and evils (sort of the opposite of jingoism). There are serious problems in pretty much every part of the world, and in most places life is harder than in the U.S. (And keep in mind there is a reason people from all over the world flock to the U.S., rather than vice-versa.)

Of course whether you leave the country or not is totally your decision, but I think generally someone should have a serious and positive reason for permanently leaving one's homeland. Do you have a particularly strong love for a particular foreign country or culture, or do you have something particular you wish to do there?
If your primary motivation is one of escape, you might question your plan.
(Though a Hillary Clinton presidency might make such a move quite tempting.)[/quote]

Good points. I personally didn't decide to leave the US for any negative reasons, just that I had more positive reasons for wanting to move to the UK (being able to get better training and work in my field being one of them). But definitely, dissatisfaction is not a good reason on its own because its often that people are looking at other nations through rose-coloured glasses, as it were.

I can also relate to my home country not feeling as much like home anymore, though I've only been away for about 1 year, not even a year. When I visited in April, my first reaction was that everything was too loud, portions of food too big, everything was big. I feel perfectly at home here. Kinda weird, really, when I think about it. But I feel that God led us here, and so it's nice that it feels like home so soon.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Rod' post='1316398' date='Jul 7 2007, 04:45 AM']Thanks for the invite. I love Canada and believe it or not especially Winnipeg! Yes I lived in the frozen north lands of the US and would escape to the 'relative civilisation' of Winnipeg to see the then Jets - now in Phoenix! (See even they moved)[/quote]

There are still people in Winnipeg?