1cor.13:1-3

["Kyrie eleison"]

When I pondered on this scripture verse it really hit me profoundly.

"If I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing" (1Cor.13:1-3).

What does this verse mean to you?

[dairygirl4u2c]

there is more to salvation than faith. to both catholic and prot, love increases their sanctionfication. to the catholic, the sanctification also acts as justification in at least what sanctification has occurred. (any other justification would have to be similar to protestant applied legality as i've not heard how to reconcile this) for prots, the sanctification has to occur but it's not required for justification. "we are saved by faith alone, but faith is never alone" but, to me, how love works into justification is a minor difference as santification to whatever degree will happen in both faiths. the CC dosn't teach you need X amount of sanctification.
the main difference cath and prots is then is that many prots think you can stop loving and still be saved as you have faith. or, other prots say if you stop loving you were never saved by faith to begin with.
the first is easy to refute, as the bible says you can be a plant that eventally withers.
the ones wh say you never had it to begin with is harder to argue against. you could say they are a plant that withered. but to even call it a plant to begin with is presupposing they were saved which is againsthe once saved always saved theology but could be argued weakly but legitimately in that the person who acted as if they wre saved was a "plant" but not really.
of ocurse, i think that's starting to twist the scripture, but as i said, weak but sort of legit argument.

i didn't explain that thoroughly but.
yes i made this into a faith v. works debate from my perspective anyway.

Edited July 5, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1313414' date='Jul 5 2007, 10:19 AM']there is more to salvation than faith. to both catholic and prot, love increases their sanctionfication. to the catholic, the sanctification also acts as justification in at least what sanctification has occurred. (any other justification would have to be similar to protestant applied legality as i've not heard how to reconcile this) for prots, the sanctification has to occur but it's not required for justification. "we are saved by faith alone, but faith is never alone" but, to me, how love works into justification is a minor difference as santification to whatever degree will happen in both faiths. the CC dosn't teach you need X amount of sanctification.
the main difference cath and prots is then is that many prots think you can stop loving and still be saved as you have faith. or, other prots say if you stop loving you were never saved by faith to begin with.
the first is easy to refute, as the bible says you can be a plant that eventally withers.
the ones wh say you never had it to begin with is harder to argue against. you could say they are a plant that withered. but to even call it a plant to begin with is presupposing they were saved which is againsthe once saved always saved theology but could be argued weakly but legitimately.

i didn't explain that thoroughly but.
yes i made this into a faith v. works debate from my perspective anyway.[/quote]

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote]the main difference cath and prots is then is that many prots think you can stop loving and still be saved as you have faith.[/quote]

I have run across many protestants devoid of love, as well as Catholics. How does one not possess love if they have God in their hearts, mind and soul?

[dairygirl4u2c]

in both circles, if htey have God they have got to have love or they are not saved.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1313442' date='Jul 5 2007, 10:39 AM']in both circles, if htey have God they have got to have love or they are not saved.[/quote]

That is not a factual statement for Protestants, as sects believe that FAITH, is JUSTIFICATION. I realize this may be an elementary topic, but it is the CORE of ADVANCING in your FAITH and ATTAINING the LOVE of CHRIST.

James 2:18 Parallel Translations

NASB: But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

["Kyrie eleison"]

I have been on boards, Budges' is one of them, to name a few, where they CONDEMN Mother Teresa for her charitable work. They[b] claim[/b] that her works could not possibly save her, if she did not convert those that she aided. It was done in vain.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i should not have said it like i did. what i should have said what that it's required in the CC, and in the reasonable prot faiths.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1313484' date='Jul 5 2007, 11:25 AM']i should not have said it like i did. what i should have said what that it's required in the CC, and in the reasonable prot faiths.[/quote]

No worries, Dariy G, what sect do you belong?

[dairygirl4u2c]

and it's not like the reasonable prot i conjure up is comepltely random. that quote was from martin luther "saved by faith alone but faith is never alone"

i belong ot the sect of dairygirl. i am christian who follows the spirit. many follow it and have different beliefs. that's because there's different levels of development and different answers for different situations. i believe in objective truth, but it's hard for us to know what it is whe nit is all the time. for the most part, it's determinable. it can appear to be relative though, but even with that it depends on how you define relative.
this is the creed of dairygirl....

["Kyrie eleison"]

Nice to meet you DairyG, I feel that one day you will come into the fullness of the Catholic Church.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i have been told that by many. and i have considered it and am still. i guess we will see.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote]i have been told that by many. and i have considered it and am still. i guess we will see.[/quote]

I can feel it very strongly. Very. What is there to see, about, if you don't mind me asking?

["Kyrie eleison"]

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/special_features/hf_jp_ii_xxv_en.htm"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/special_...p_ii_xxv_en.htm[/url]

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1313476' date='Jul 5 2007, 04:16 PM']I have been on boards, Budges' is one of them, to name a few, where they CONDEMN Mother Teresa for her charitable work. They[b] claim[/b] that her works could not possibly save her, if she did not convert those that she aided. It was done in vain.[/quote]

Interesting. I fail to see how helping people, showing love, could ever be in vain. I am reminded of the story of the 10 lepers that Jesus heals. He heals all 10 of them, but only one comes back to him and is "converted", so to speak. As St. Francis said, "Preach the Gospel at all times, use words if necessary". Our words mean nothing unless we show God's love in our actions, as well. Or maybe it's just that I'm skeptical of what people say until I see if they also live it.