Unbelieveable: Catholic Bishops Defend Human-animal Hybrids

[MichaelF]

[quote name='jckinsman' post='1304202' date='Jun 28 2007, 12:01 PM']Hello MichaelF,
Can you tell me why budge would care if you used the word homo or not? I do not carry a degree in what you do,so why is that important?[/quote]

It's not important, merely the shorthand used in biological/zoological discussions. If you have already established that you are discussing the higher hominids, you do not need to restate the Genus (Homo, "man"). Especially since the only other modern [i]homo[/i] species ([i]h sapiens idaltu[/i]) is extinct.

Budge, desperate for a rhetorical weapon, tried to portray my comment as a denial of the dignity of Man. Incorrectly.

Edited June 28, 2007 by MichaelF

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Budge' post='1304449' date='Jun 28 2007, 03:28 PM']Dont change the subject, the subject of this thread is animal-human hybrids.
BULL.

If the genes come from an animal source they are not human.[/quote]

So red-headed people are inhuman? They carry the 1MCR gene which is responsible for that pigment in all mammals.

[Kirisutodo333]

[quote name='Budge' post='1304438' date='Jun 28 2007, 04:17 PM']With this issue I know I am definitely wasting my time, someone has to believe in the bible literally to understand why this is a great evil and why it is unacceptable.

I suppose part of me had hoped thered be a few here with some God-given conscience to realize that chimeras are unacceptable instead of being more brainwashed by PC society and the mushy-headedness of leaders who do not believe in Gods Word.

ONe person here said to me..
and really meant ONLY A FOOL would believe God's Word meant what it said: WE KNOW BETTER.

Right there is the crux of the problem.

So when some science guy shows up, being rude and who by his post definitely shows no inkling that he is against this sort of thing, what side do you folks take?

You accept godless unethical "science" over Gods Word, full stop.[/quote]

[quote]With this issue I know I am definitely wasting my time, someone has to believe in the bible literally to understand why this is a great evil and why it is unacceptable.[/quote]

By believing in the Bible literally, you're wasting our time and what is infinitely more important, God's time.

[quote]I suppose part of me had hoped thered be a few here with some God-given conscience to realize that chimeras are unacceptable instead of being more brainwashed by PC society and the mushy-headedness of leaders who do not believe in Gods Word.[/quote]

Budge, you need to do a lot of hoping for a lot of things.
[quote]ONe person here said to me..[/quote]

That was me...much appreciated.

[quote]and really meant ONLY A FOOL would believe God's Word meant what it said: WE KNOW BETTER.[/quote]

You are correct. Only a fool would believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and more interestingly, only a fool would believe in Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. To understand the Bible, you must completely understand the World of the Text, the World in the Text and the World in front of the Text. You must identify and understand the literary devices that the writers used to get their message across. And you do not. And that is why you fail.

[quote]So when some science guy shows up, being rude and who by his post definitely shows no inkling that he is against this sort of thing, what side do you folks take?[/quote]

We take the side of the educated person, of that one that lives by [i]fides quaerens intellectum[/i] and [i]fides quaerens veritas[/i].

[quote]You accept godless unethical "science" over Gods Word, full stop.[/quote]

Budge, you are showing your ignorance. True science explains God's creation, it warrants a Creator. People like you destroy the amicable relationship between science and religion. We must work together to understand the infinite mind of God. But to you, God is finite, because he only lives in your personal interpretation of the Bible.

[jeffpugh]

I am personally insulted by Budge's lack of charity and acknowledgment of scientific studies... get her off of here...

[quote name='Kirisutodo333' post='1304492' date='Jun 28 2007, 05:59 PM']By believing in the Bible literally, you're wasting our time and what is infinitely more important, God's time.
Budge, you need to do a lot of hoping for a lot of things.
That was me...much appreciated.
You are correct. Only a fool would believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and more interestingly, only a fool would believe in Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.[b] To understand the Bible, you must completely understand the World of the Text, the World in the Text and the World in front of the Text. You must identify and understand the literary devices that the writers used to get their message across.[/b] And you do not. And that is why you fail.
We take the side of the educated person, of that one that lives by [i]fides quaerens intellectum[/i] and [i]fides quaerens veritas[/i].
Budge, you are showing your ignorance. True science explains God's creation, it warrants a Creator. People like you destroy the amicable relationship between science and religion. We must work together to understand the infinite mind of God. But to you, God is finite, because he only lives in your personal interpretation of the Bible.[/quote]

Very eloquent, Kirisutodo333. Especially the part I bolded.

[Kirisutodo333]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1304614' date='Jun 28 2007, 06:47 PM']I am personally insulted by Budge's lack of charity and acknowledgment of scientific studies... get her off of here...
Very eloquent, Kirisutodo333. Especially the part I bolded.[/quote]

Thanks for the kind words sir!

My Theology professor taught me the importance of the "Three Worlds." He explains it in detail in his book [i]Reading the Bible: A Study Guide[/i] by Dr. Timothy R. Carmody. I recommend it to everyone.

paz

Kiris

[abercius24]

[quote name='Budge' post='1304051' date='Jun 28 2007, 05:25 AM']By the way how many Catholics here would want a hybrid as a son-in law?[/quote]

I must remind you, Budge, that the Ku Klux Klan has always considered itself to be a righteous, biblically-driven organization. They see minorities similar to how you interpret the Nephilim, and because of their bold, self-assured interpretations of scripture, they have destroyed the lives of millions of innocent people.

Imagine that this may eventually become more than a debate, but a true reality. Say a new creature is produced from the merging of animal and human DNA. You would condemn this individual as a freak of nature and subject him/her to descrimination and persecution. We on the outside would see your treatment of this person and consider at what level this person was deserving of it. Say this new person is a sentient being -- he/she is able to think intelligently and exhibits a free-will. Such qualities would place the individual far above that of animals. In fact, he/she would be exhibiting traits God Himself shared with human beings, traits that have elevated our value in His eyes to that above the animals. Here is an individual the rest of us would naturally understand to be an equal in the eyes of God, yet we see you treating him/her like an animal. Perhaps you had forgotten that God is the Author of Life, and for some reason chose to cooperate in the creation of this new being despite the atrocious manner in which it was executed. Perhaps God has made this individual to be greater than the manner in which he/she was created, as He did when He created us from mud and clay -- a much less sophisticated substance than genetically-enhanced embryos. Your language frightens us because it parallels that of other radical fundamentalists who have carried out similar atrocities in the name of the Bible. I'm sure this is not the image you intend us to have of you, yet it is what we are struggling with in this conversation.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1304408' date='Jun 28 2007, 03:38 PM']Cmother I know your religion has taught you to take the "experts" opinion for everything.

I think the experts are wrong a lot of the time and what is taught in universities half of it is nonsense.

When I was UU, I was fully immersed in the world of wealthy liberal academics, some a long the science route.

Im NOT impressed.[/quote]

I didn't ask if you were impressed, I simply asked what your qualifications were to back up your opinion. If you have none, how can you dismiss the points presented?

I have a [very] general knowledge of the science involved, but I have no problem deferring to someone who is a professional in the subject, just as when Arch Cat discusses archeology, or Terra discusses law.

Since you don't trust "experts" I suppose you handle all your own legal and ledical issues on your own, correct?

[aalpha1989]

why are we even addressing this topic? i really don't get it...

when this topic first appeared i didnt even open it because its ridiculous...

then today i saw how long it has gotten and i just had to say something. it is pointless to argue attacks on the church like this one because the author is so zealously anti catholic that she doesnt care what you have to say. she'll just dig up any mud on the church she can find and make us try to answer every single accusation. if she was honestly attempting to make dialogue that would be a different story...

[Budge]

No I dont trust experts on everything and as far as legal and medical go, the way the medical establishment is now if you have an uncommon problem, if you wait on them, youll be waiting yourself into the cemetary. As for the rest of you go do some research on biotechnology, this isnt the only thing they are up to thats no good.

As for me being anticatholic, reading this stuff and defense of it {I have noticed any outrage against this stuff even being done has been extremely muted here} has only served to make me more so, and realize how this "Church" has no moral creditbility and is actually closing down God-given consciences and chooses "science" over God's Word--that one definitely is true.

For those who think Im a fool for believing Gods Word, then call me a FOOL, guilty as charged because I believe it.

And the strawman that I am a RACISTS for standing my ground {a dumb argument because how do you people even know what race I am because Ive never told you} with this is a lame argument, stupid, and just more liberal "lets play the race card" Different races are fully human and made by God, these creatures are NOT. There is no way an animal human hybrid would *think* like a human, they would have animal instincts. When they would desire to "feed" they would do so, and the combination of whatever human *intelligence* meets animal *killing to eat* {a natural thing many at least predatory animals do} would make a horror movie come alive.
[quote]Here is an individual the rest of us would naturally understand to be an equal in the eyes of God, yet we see you treating him/her like an animal.[/quote]

Equal in the eyes of God when God has said otherwise in His Word? Thats the problem here none of you believe it, you accept the arguments of mad scientists instead. As I said to one poster, Go join PETA and the people who think chickens should be given equal rights to human beings. [quote]Perhaps you had forgotten that God is the Author of Life, and for some reason chose to cooperate in the creation of this new being despite the atrocious manner in which it was executed.[/quote]

You seriously believe that GOd would COOPERATE in the formation of these creatures? Another priceless Catholic understatement, it was made "atrocious", but hey dude God cooperated in it. Sometimes you folks write stuff that doesnt even make any sense!

[Budge]

[url="http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000BCF6C-7AF0-12B8-BAF083414B7FFE9F"]http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID...AF083414B7FFE9F[/url]


[quote][b]Weissman and others, for example, have envisioned one day making a mouse with fully "humanised" brain tissue.[/b] The lawyer developmental programme and tiny size of this chimerical mouse fairly guarantee that its mental capacities would not differ greatly from those of normal mice[b]. But what if human cells were instead put in the foetus of a chimpanzee? The birth of something less beastly could not be ruled out.[/b][/quote]

[mod]Please don't link there. --Era Might[/mod]

You folks need to do some reading on how your beloved "scientists" are making terminator seeds so third world people cant regrow food without buying new seed every season, trojan fish, and GMO food that is destroying the diversity of the food supply all in preparation for the antichrist.

[url="http://www.globalchange.com/humancow.htm"]http://www.globalchange.com/humancow.htm[/url]

This is the stuff of nightmares, and you folks are ANGRY at ME instead?

Seared consciences, that is all I can say.

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Budge' post='1305304' date='Jun 29 2007, 09:30 AM']There is no way an animal human hybrid would *think* like a human, they would have animal instincts.[/quote]


Wow. Evidently you know quite a bit more about Neurogenetics than, well, the Neurogenetics community...

Again, your lack of education in this subject is telling. Even a 50:50 admixture is unlikely to be anything like a simple "blend" of phenotypical traits. Or even a viable organism. Inserting genes from a Zebra does not equate to stripes. Many gene complexes will be suppressed by already-extant genes, or even create the "noise effect" which causes Trisomy-21 (Down's Syndrome) from multiple genes causing overproduction of critical proteins.


[b]Note to everyone else:[/b] What we know for certain (or are even relatively confident of) about how genetics influences intelligence and personality could be put in a very short pamphlet. "If-Then" statements are few and far between.

The reason we don't have super-Goats ("pharm animals") creating Valium-laced milk is because genetic engineering turns out to be really, really hard (try designing an engine when you don't know where the cylinders are, or what they do, or why spark plugs are neccesary).

Edited June 29, 2007 by MichaelF

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1305304' date='Jun 29 2007, 10:30 AM']You seriously believe that GOd would COOPERATE in the formation of these creatures? Another priceless Catholic understatement, it was made "atrocious", but hey dude God cooperated in it. Sometimes you folks write stuff that doesnt even make any sense![/quote]


So you think the God who parted the Reed Sea, and made all of Creation, couldn't stop a simple experiment if HE wanted to????
Are you thinking God is not ALmighthy?

You certainly make no sense.

[Budge]

cmother,

God will take care of the "results" of these experiments, that definitely will be happening, like with the Flood.


[quote]Wow. Evidently you know quite a bit more about Neurogenetics than, well, the Neurogenetics community...

Again, your lack of education in this subject is telling. Even a 50:50 admixture is unlikely to be anything like a simple "blend" of phenotypical traits. Or even a viable organism. Inserting genes from a Zebra does not equate to stripes. Many gene complexes will be suppressed by already-extant genes, or even create the "noise effect" which causes Trisomy-21 (Down's Syndrome) from multiple genes causing overproduction of critical proteins.[/quote]

You know what is creepy, here you are DEFENDING this stuff, and the Catholics who all have pretended they are against these experiments have not said one word against them since you came on.

Their sychophancy to so called experts I suppose has been indoctrinated.

Anyhow with the above you are simply trying to "confuse" the issue, we are talking about a FUTURE possiblity of human-animal hybrids. Did I say this is "possible" now? THey are working towards it however.



[quote]Note to everyone else: What we know for certain (or are even relatively confident of) about how genetics influences intelligence and personality could be put in a very short pamphlet. "If-Then" statements are few and far between.[/quote]

Oh come on, the nature vs. nurture argument has been around forever. it is KNOWN that gentetics DO in fact affect personality, how much is the debate.

Stop trying to confuse these poor people so they come into acceptance of this garbage more.

No wonder youre Catholic, Catholicism elevates science over that "old book" they consider a "dead letter": and now you have your bishops defending the "results" of your experiments.

[quote]The reason we don't have super-Goats ("pharm animals") creating Valium-laced milk is because genetic engineering turns out to be really, really hard (try designing an engine when you don't know where the cylinders are, or what they do, or why spark plugs are neccesary).[/quote]

Im glad its hard, who knows what other sick stuff theyd be up to by now...

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1949073.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1949073.stm[/url]

[img]http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1945000/images/_1949073_mouse_ear300.jpg[/img]

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/889951.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/889951.stm[/url]

Scientific knowledge doesnt mean wisdom, these "scientists" remain woefully ignorant of how they are making worldwide animal to human plagues that much more a danger.

[Kirisutodo333]

[quote name='Budge' post='1305304' date='Jun 29 2007, 10:30 AM']No I dont trust experts on everything and as far as legal and medical go, the way the medical establishment is now if you have an uncommon problem, if you wait on them, youll be waiting yourself into the cemetary. As for the rest of you go do some research on biotechnology, this isnt the only thing they are up to thats no good.

As for me being anticatholic, reading this stuff and defense of it {I have noticed any outrage against this stuff even being done has been extremely muted here} has only served to make me more so, and realize how this "Church" has no moral creditbility and is actually closing down God-given consciences and chooses "science" over God's Word--that one definitely is true.

For those who think Im a fool for believing Gods Word, then call me a FOOL, guilty as charged because I believe it.

And the strawman that I am a RACISTS for standing my ground {a dumb argument because how do you people even know what race I am because Ive never told you} with this is a lame argument, stupid, and just more liberal "lets play the race card" Different races are fully human and made by God, these creatures are NOT. There is no way an animal human hybrid would *think* like a human, they would have animal instincts. When they would desire to "feed" they would do so, and the combination of whatever human *intelligence* meets animal *killing to eat* {a natural thing many at least predatory animals do} would make a horror movie come alive.
Equal in the eyes of God when God has said otherwise in His Word? Thats the problem here none of you believe it, you accept the arguments of mad scientists instead. As I said to one poster, Go join PETA and the people who think chickens should be given equal rights to human beings.

You seriously believe that GOd would COOPERATE in the formation of these creatures? Another priceless Catholic understatement, it was made "atrocious", but hey dude God cooperated in it. Sometimes you folks write stuff that doesnt even make any sense![/quote]

[quote]For those who think Im a fool for believing Gods Word, then call me a FOOL, guilty as charged because I believe it.[/quote]

So when Jesus said, ""Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword", do you believe he literally brought with him a steel sword to wave around? Do you think Jesus may have been speaking metaphorically? Are we supposed to accept the literal translation of this statement? Please do tell.
[quote]And the strawman that I am a RACISTS for standing my ground {a dumb argument because how do you people even know what race I am because Ive never told you} with this is a lame argument, stupid, and just more liberal "lets play the race card"[/quote]

I'm far from liberal.

[quote]When they would desire to "feed" they would do so, and the combination of whatever human *intelligence* meets animal *killing to eat* {a natural thing many at least predatory animals do} would make a horror movie come alive.[/quote]

Hate to break it to you Budge, we have the same instinct. All of these animal instincts reside within our collective unconscious. The desire to feed, to mate and to survive are formulas that all of God's creatures share. On the other hand, Man was given a soul, and the wisdom and knowledge to "choose" (therefore freewill), and to abide by the moral absolute. We "kill to eat" just like other animals. We just do it more efficiently and with more cruelty. Pointing out that there are differences between the survival instincts between animals and men shows your exceptional lack of education. Knowledge is key to gaining God's intimacy. As long as you make yourself ignorant to knowledge, you will hold God at arm's length.

paz

Kiris

[Winchester]

You people are simply not outraged enough. Hit your keys harder, folks! Add exclamation points to your sentences!!!!!!