XIX Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 This is an extension of carrdero's "Let's talk about Love" thread, only this thread is about romantic love..."being in love." There is a school of thought that say "You can't fall out of love. If you fall out of love, you were never in love in the first place." Well, bulldookie, I say. You absolutely can fall out of love. It's quite common, and it's very hard to be in love with someone without eventually falling out of love. I'd go so far as to say it's practically impossible. The first point I want to make is about "if you fall out of love, you were never in love to begin with." This bothers me, because it resembles the whole "once saved always saved" logic. The logic that says that if you fall away from Christ, you were never saved to begin with. But I'm sure there are a few protestants reading this that believe in OSAS, so I won't belabor that point lest we get off-topic. Secondly, placing such a high premium on "falling in love" kind of misses the point of...Love. Falling in love is, first and foremost, an emotion. A highly important, exciting and powerful emotion, but it's still just an emotion. The Greek word for romantic love is [i]eros.[/i] As with any other emotion, [i]eros[/i] is mostly out of our control. It's not completely out of our control but for the most part, we can't just decide who to crush on or anything like that. And as with any emotion, it goes away. And comes back. And does what it will, at basically random intervals. So my point is that [i]eros[/i] not only can go away, it is practically inevitable for it to go away. Why? Because it is not something we choose to feel. And just because it is a feeling. God is not in the feeling, no matter how powerful the feeling is. This is why it is so dangerous to equate "falling in love" with "true love." It can't work--by itself that is. [color="#FF0000"][i]Eros[/i] must, must and must work in tandem with [i]Agape.[/i] [/color]The latter is Greek for "Divine love." The latter is the choice we make. Agape can accurately be defined as when you choose to love those for whom you don't "feel" any love. Put another way: we only love God as much as the person we like the least. You can have the most incredible emotional attachment to a person, but still not choose to love that person. In fact, romantic love without agape normally gives way to lust. You'll stay "in love" with the person, but you will never love him or her the way you are called to. In any event, people will fall in love. And out of love. Fact of life. It is when you fall out of love with someone that [i]agape[/i] must take over. And through agape, you will start to fall back in love again. Things work themselves out. But it is important to realize that [i]eros,[/i] because it is raw emotion, will come and go. --PAX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 here, here maybe if people talk about this enough, those latin words will word its way into american's working vocabulary and consciousness. that would change the face of romanticism quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1300151' date='Jun 23 2007, 04:06 PM']here, here maybe if people talk about this enough, those latin words will word its way into american's working vocabulary and consciousness. that would change the face of romanticism quite a bit.[/quote] Agreed. I thought it was very well written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddington Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Gordon street? I once knew a girl from Gordon street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) [quote]XIX writes: This is an extension of carrdero's "Let's talk about Love" thread, only this thread is about romantic love..."being in love." There is a school of thought that say "You can't fall out of love. If you fall out of love, you were never in love in the first place." Well, bulldookie, I say. You absolutely can fall out of love. It's quite common, and it's very hard to be in love with someone without eventually falling out of love. I'd go so far as to say it's practically impossible.[/quote]I think that maybe this point should be cleared up by the principal of this School of Thought. When you invest love in a relationship ( for example: feelings, time or effort) it is already an established investment and cannot be taken back. The best you could do with a relationship that was once lovingly energetic is suspend its growth or harvest this experience. I liken this to owning a plant that cannot die. If you are caring for this plant in the effect to make this plant grow or possibly blossom and you postpone putting any effort toward this, the plant would still be alive it would just be in the same position when one decided not to provide any more care for it. The plant cannot die, it just cannot grow. Much of love is deferred. In other words, if one cannot sustain love in one area (it doesn’t mean they have fallen out) they are usually channeling love towards another endeavor. [quote]XIX writes: The first point I want to make is about "if you fall out of love, you were never in love to begin with." This bothers me, because it resembles the whole "once saved always saved" logic.[/quote] I do not insinuate love as a rescue effort. I have never met someone who was in dire need of love as they were in need of understanding. The love given cannot be taken away, it cannot be fooled into thinking it was not love. If your intentions of love were sincere then you were indeed expressing love. [quote]XIX writes: The logic that says that if you fall away from Christ, you were never saved to begin with. But I'm sure there are a few protestants reading this that believe in OSAS, so I won't belabor that point lest we get off-topic.[/quote]I believe that salvation comes from within. You cannot rely on anyone to save you just as you should not rely or hope on anyone to love you. 10.You should not depend on LOVE from another person. There is nothing wrong with accepting someone's LOVE as long as you do not hope for it. [quote]XIX writes: Secondly, placing such a high premium on "falling in love" kind of misses the point of...Love. Falling in love is, first and foremost, an emotion. A highly important, exciting and powerful emotion, but it's still just an emotion. The Greek word for romantic love is eros. As with any other emotion, eros is mostly out of our control. It's not completely out of our control but for the most part, we can't just decide who to crush on or anything like that. And as with any emotion, it goes away. And comes back. And does what it will, at basically random intervals.[/quote] Love usually implies a little more understanding than just emotion. The emotion may be driven by the newness of love. A newly discovered love can be very exciting. The main probability with love is that it can become too comfortable or possibly become stubborn. 25. Consideration, Respect and Forgiveness helps LOVE to grow. Some people would consider this to be a rut or recognize this as love that has gone stale. Most likely some people are reaching out or searching for this feeling that they had for love when they first encountered it. With a little understanding and a few spontaneous surprises this emotion can be rediscovered. A personal touch (style) goes a long way in rekindling love. 2. You can recreate and rediscover and rekindle your experiences in LOVE. [quote]XIX writes: So my point is that eros not only can go away, it is practically inevitable for it to go away. Why? Because it is not something we choose to feel. And just because it is a feeling. God is not in the feeling, no matter how powerful the feeling is. This is why it is so dangerous to equate "falling in love" with "true love." It can't work--by itself that is.[/quote]Love is not a wound that time eventually heals. Love is not an addiction. Love does not have to entail suffering or sacrifice. [quote]XIX writes: Eros must, must and must work in tandem with Agape. The latter is Greek for "Divine love." The latter is the choice we make. Agape can accurately be defined as when you choose to love those for whom you don't "feel" any love. Put another way: we only love God as much as the person we like the least. You can have the most incredible emotional attachment to a person, but still not choose to love that person.[/quote] 4. Though there are many kinds of LOVE, as long as your LOVE is sincere it can be applicable to anything. [quote]XIX writes: In fact, romantic love without agape normally gives way to lust. You'll stay "in love" with the person, but you will never love him or her the way you are called to.[/quote]21. Sex is not LOVE. Sex can BE an extension of giving and receiving LOVE. [quote]XIX writes: In any event, people will fall in love. And out of love. Fact of life. It is when you fall out of love with someone that agape must take over. And through agape, you will start to fall back in love again. Things work themselves out. But it is important to realize that eros, because it is raw emotion, will come and go.[/quote] There is a true story that I relate that when my first girlfriend broke up with me she had tried to convince herself and everyone that she hated me. She still maintains this illusion even to go as far as giving herself a mantra for this “dis-love”. “Out of sight, out of mind” After 14 years of keeping “out of sight” I have been recently assigned at the same workplace as her. Though it now appears to her that I am not dead and can no longer be kept “out of sight,” I for one do not believe that she has ever kept me “out of mind”. One cannot forget love. It is these essential memories and experiences that we need to define exactly what love means in our lives and one will never find a height tall enough to throw love over. Edited June 23, 2007 by carrdero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jckinsman Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 [quote name='XIX' date='Jun 23 2007, 02:23 AM' post='1300108'] This is an extension of carrdero's "Let's talk about Love" thread, only this thread is about romantic love..."being in love." There is a school of thought that say "You can't fall out of love. If you fall out of love, you were never in love in the first place." Well, bulldookie, I say. You absolutely can fall out of love. It's quite common, and it's very hard to be in love with someone without eventually falling out of love. I'd go so far as to say it's practically impossible. The first point I want to make is about "if you fall out of love, you were never in love to begin with." This bothers me, because it resembles the whole "once saved always saved" logic. The logic that says that if you fall away from Christ, you were never saved to begin with. But I'm sure there are a few protestants reading this that believe in OSAS, so I won't belabor that point lest we get off-topic. Secondly, placing such a high premium on "falling in love" kind of misses the point of...Love. Falling in love is, first and foremost, an emotion. A highly important, exciting and powerful emotion, but it's still just an emotion. The Greek word for romantic love is [i]eros.[/i] As with any other emotion, [i]eros[/i] is mostly out of our control. It's not completely out of our control but for the most part, we can't just decide who to crush on or anything like that. And as with any emotion, it goes away. And comes back. And does what it will, at basically random intervals. So my point is that [i]eros[/i] not only can go away, it is practically inevitable for it to go away. Why? Because it is not something we choose to feel. And just because it is a feeling. God is not in the feeling, no matter how powerful the feeling is. This is why it is so dangerous to equate "falling in love" with "true love." It can't work--by itself that is. [color="#FF0000"][i]Eros[/i] must, must and must work in tandem with [i]Agape.[/i] [/color]The latter is Greek for "Divine love." The latter is the choice we make. Agape can accurately be defined as when you choose to love those for whom you don't "feel" any love. Put another way: we only love God as much as the person we like the least. You can have the most incredible emotional attachment to a person, but still not choose to love that person. In fact, romantic love without agape normally gives way to lust. You'll stay "in love" with the person, but you will never love him or her the way you are called to. In any event, people will fall in love. And out of love. Fact of life. It is when you fall out of love with someone that [i]agape[/i] must take over. And through agape, you will start to fall back in love again. Things work themselves out. But it is important to realize that [i]eros,[/i] because it is raw emotion, will come and go. --PAX [/quot "True love" is Beautiful,and in that choice to allow Gods love to enter in to the factor then No matter what comes along, suffering or sacrifice,can waiver it! Agape Love IS everlasting. The "feeling" of being in Love can really be distorted,used and abused. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 XIX, I like your post. Good stuff there. Agreed totally. There is that confusion that there is no distinction between feelings and choices these days. We can change that though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jckinsman Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) Change is a funny word to use don't you think? Everything is saturated in this free-for-all mentality. True MORAL discernment goes hand in hand with a society that actually has morals and frowns upon the degrading of the most Holy and Sacred act that our Lord has given to us. Unfourtunaty,It is individuals that promote this degrading of sex,not only by veiwing pornography,promoting homosexuality and other offenisive acts,that degrade what the meaning of Agape love truly is. For them it is self- serving,and they condone and promote it as such. It is these individuals that have created a distorted CHANGE of what Gods intention for love truly is. Change,for the individual that has experianced this kind of distortion is more difficult to experiance and accept "AGAPE" love. We must pray! JC Edited June 24, 2007 by jckinsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) [quote]Jkinsman writes: "True love" is Beautiful,and in that choice to allow Gods love to enter in to the factor then No matter what comes along, suffering or sacrifice,can waiver it! Agape Love IS everlasting. The "feeling" of being in Love can really be distorted,used and abused. JC [/quote]Which type of love are we discussing/describing? Is this the same kind of conditional love mentioned in the Old Tetament that if people do not accept God’s love, will or beliefs that He should put people to death and/or sentence them to an Eternal Hell? Or is this the “love thy neighbor as thy love thyself, freely forgive others as my Father has freely forgiven you” type of Godly Love as expressed in the NT? Just trying to clarify. [quote]Jkinsman writes: Change is a funny word to use don't you think?[/quote] Yes, especially when one is describing and comparing gods and testaments. Edited June 24, 2007 by carrdero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 [quote]It's quite common, and it's very hard to be in love with someone without eventually falling out of love. I'd go so far as to say it's practically impossible.[/quote] This is a kind of jaded view of love. Now are you thinking of infatuation or true love? Ive never fallen out of love....suppose I am different but then I am married to my first love. This society tells married people you will fall out of love... I think this is societal brainwashing that spits on love. Your love may change, and it should go deeper then just giddy anticipation and infautuation..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1300497' date='Jun 24 2007, 03:27 PM']This is a kind of jaded view of love. Now are you thinking of infatuation or true love? Ive never fallen out of love....suppose I am different but then I am married to my first love. This society tells married people you will fall out of love... I think this is societal brainwashing that spits on love. Your love may change, and it should go deeper then just giddy anticipation and infautuation.....[/quote] I think the point was more that you won't always have that "feeling" of love. That there can be times when you don't feel like loving that person, and those times are when you choose to love them. Through this decision to love regardless, your love becomes deeper, stronger, as you said. The problem comes in seeing love as only that giddy emotion (as I think we can agree that not everyone understands that true love is much more than that). At least that's what I got out of it (sorry for rambling!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) Thanks for this. I really needed it. Pax! Edited June 24, 2007 by MissyP89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jckinsman Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 [quote name='carrdero' post='1300409' date='Jun 24 2007, 02:53 AM']Which type of love are we discussing/describing? Is this the same kind of conditional love mentioned in the Old Tetament that if people do not accept God’s love, will or beliefs that He should put people to death and/or sentence them to an Eternal Hell? Or is this the “love thy neighbor as thy love thyself, freely forgive others as my Father has freely forgiven you” type of Godly Love as expressed in the NT? Just trying to clarify. Yes, especially when one is describing and comparing gods and testaments.[/quote] Oh carrdero, it's so nice to talk to you again! I am describing and discussing both kinds of Love! And the effect it has on society! Maybe I wasn't very clear to you. I think that you just take offense, very easily whenever I mention homosexual love and such, as disordered as distorted and not a part of what God had intended for Love. I think we have gone over this before.................. and over and over I think that you have established very clearly what kind of love that you promote! We are just trying to show you there is a difference! I just wonder how "love thy neighbor as thy self," Has anything to do with what we speak of. Where is this rabbit trail going? Forgiving requires asking for forgiveness and in turn, going out and sinning no more!( Or at least trying not to!) Not promoting sin as normal and everyone must accept this as such.THAT IS NOT TRULY LOVING SOMEONE! What kind of Gods do you compare? There is only ONE! Agape love speaks so much more then you are willing to listen to because you can not get beyond the fact that loving someone truly deals in self sacrifice and accepting that to truly have this kind of love God must be first in your life. That Love must radiate forth from the cross, HE FREELY CHOSE, that you,carrdero,might one day know His LOVE for you AND you in turn can go forth with that Love, and Love others with that kind of "Agape" Love! I think that this was said much better at the start of this thread! JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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