Obsession Or Discernment

[philosophette]

I suppose that we could compare it to being in love. At first you are totally smitten and totally taken up with the person, but after that intense emotion wears off you still have the deep down love left and it is more steady and not as "all over the place" as before.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='philosobrat' post='1301377' date='Jun 25 2007, 04:34 PM']I suppose that we could compare it to being in love. At first you are totally smitten and totally taken up with the person, but after that intense emotion wears off you still have the deep down love left and it is more steady and not as "all over the place" as before.[/quote]

That's kind of what I was trying to say. Unfortunately, I don't have the gift of making things "short and sweet"

[Maria]

Also, I think that when someone, especially someone who's young. first becomes interested in something, they want to learn everything about it, and you could say they're obsessed. I don't think it's a bad thing. Once they feel they're familiar with it, they'll stop voraciously consuming information and will no longer be obsessed.

[Veritas]

[quote name='Maria' post='1301826' date='Jun 26 2007, 12:06 AM']Also, I think that when someone, especially someone who's young. first becomes interested in something, they want to learn everything about it, and you could say they're obsessed. I don't think it's a bad thing. Once they feel they're familiar with it, they'll stop voraciously consuming information and will no longer be obsessed.[/quote]

+

Good point.

[Piccoli Fiori JMJ]

Wow... lots of input...

Well, I do understand that the nature of youth can be a bit unstable about things and that different circumstances create different scenarios. I guess a bit of my youthfulness has worn off, but at the same time I guess I need to work on the log in my own eye. It can be very difficult for me to deal with immaturity sometimes, but I am quite glad that there are others to put my thinking in check, to realize that I'm looking out in a rather narrow way. But, I am still pondering about many of these things still. Maybe I need to check my own pride too.
Even in society in general, it is quite easy to get somewhat obsessed about things and it is still considered normal nor life-threatening. I guess I need to take a break from working with youth and maybe even young adults for a little.
Thanks for the input and thoughts

[alicemary]

ahh, but there is something so wonderful, so pure about youth. It is such a short time in the epic of ones life. There is a certain sparkle and joy of life in young people that is awesome. I wish we could maintain some of that, before we become jaded with time and age.
Working with the young has to be both frustrating and rewarding. Don't abandon them unless you really feel you need a change. They need positive role models in their lives.
Obsessions in any form are not so good for one. Some people just tend to be obsessive over certain things(like length of habit or its color) and may forget the real reason they are looking at religious life.
I have every expectation that you are moving in the right direction, and the path you are taking will lead to your life's fullfillment.
God Bless,
Alicemary

[Veritas]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1304178' date='Jun 28 2007, 11:16 AM']ahh, but there is something so wonderful, so pure about youth. It is such a short time in the epic of ones life. There is a certain sparkle and joy of life in young people that is awesome. I wish we could maintain some of that, before we become jaded with time and age.
Working with the young has to be both frustrating and rewarding. Don't abandon them unless you really feel you need a change. They need positive role models in their lives.
Obsessions in any form are not so good for one. Some people just tend to be obsessive over certain things(like length of habit or its color) and may forget the real reason they are looking at religious life.
I have every expectation that you are moving in the right direction, and the path you are taking will lead to your life's fullfillment.
God Bless,
Alicemary[/quote]

+

Yes, it's fun to talk about habits and charism and fun little particulars and that's okay, but as long as there is fidelity -and there needs to be a devotion to this for the sake of one's soul and the community- it's important to keep that in proper perspective as not the ultimate and highest reason for becoming a nun! And, it's true, there is such a zeal in youth! So much potential! Most everyone struggles with temptation to some petty sins like those FutureNun listed above. Please try not to let that get you down. You're in a beautiful position to encourage proper order and to maybe warn agains some of those selfish distractions and temptations in a kind and gentle way.

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='FutureNunJMJ' post='1299879' date='Jun 22 2007, 12:06 PM']When is the discernment of religious life, not discernment of religious life? This has been a question that I have been asking myself rather recently, and I have found myself pondering on it lately. I have seen a great number of young girls who have been discerning the religious life. Many of them are in high school or college, with a few beyond that even. I have seen several that thought they had a call, but have decided that it should not be further sought after for one reason or another. I have also seen, on the other hand, many young ladies who have become obsessed with religious life and becoming a Sister. Now, it is very good to have a desire for the religious life and have interest in it, but it is not healthy to have an obsession with it, just as it is not healthy to have an obsession with anything. Holy things are good, but an obsession is not healthy, and is really a great hindrance to becoming holy.

How can you tell the difference from true discernment of religious life from obsession? It is not easy to decipher either, unless you are spiritually mature. First, we must seek the Kingdom to find where the King desires us to be in His Kingdom. In these matters, I can speak from my own experience. Now, it really has not been until recently that I have felt some maturation of my soul. I would not even dare to say that my soul is totally mature even, but step by step, it is ascending.

Until quite recently, I have been an immature, and somewhat obsessed soul in discerning the religious life. I was there for the praise sometimes that I would get. Now, it was good holy praise, but if taken in and fed to the ego, it is no longer holy. For example, a friend would ask if I was still thinking about becoming a nun, and I would simply reply yes. They would say things like "Good!" "We'll be praying for you!" "That's great!" and the like. Now, not that any of these things are bad things to say, but if not taken with great humility, these bits of sugar feed the ego until it is inflated and one becomes very proud of their 'special' calling.

Now, do not get me wrong here. The call to the religious life is a precious and unique call! It truly is a special and very sacred thing to behold! It must be something revered like Mary's call was revered. How many people knew of her miraculous calling to be the Mother of God? Very few indeed! Her most chaste spouse, St. Joseph, surely knew as we are told this in the Scriptures. Elizabeth knew as well, for God had revealed it to her. They were told as to give glory to God. It was revealed only to those that needed to in God's great plan of salvation. Jesus Himself did not reveal the greatness of his mother on earth. Likewise, our calling needs to be protected and revered. Our calling is a great gift from God and ought not to be misused.

Still, there are more signs of obsession. One of which that I have seen in many young women, along with myself, is a desire to know as many Sisters and communities as possible, and when in conversation show off this knowledge of communities. Now, it is one thing if someone is asking for information or if anyone has been there and there is a response to that in the spirit of informing another. But if one thinks the more Religious they know makes them more knowledgeable about religious life in general and will speak only about 'their' community, it can be that pride has snuck into your calling. This matter though, is still touchy and can vary from case to case, as I am not totally done thinking about the matters discussed above.

Along the same lines as above though, is that once one finds a community that God is leading them towards, suddenly, without even enterance or acceptance to the community, they find themselves to be part of the community. If the community is Franciscan, suddenly, they are Franciscan too! They must only read Franciscan books and about Franciscan Saints! Oh! They must now find a favorite Franciscan Saint! Now, they must get Franciscan things! Medals, jewelry, statues, holy cards, books! They must get to know every Franciscan they see, or even seek them out, and let them know that they too will be a Franciscan! There is just so much, and they must immerse themselves in it all! Surely, does this not sound obsessive, even to the common man? Discerning the religious life calls us to detachment, not attachment. We must continue to grow spiritually. We cannot limit ourselves to one spirituality of one order or community. Is anyone ever really truly Franciscan then? Yes. When one enters the order. But, through and through, we must first seek to become holy. Becoming one order or another does not effect how holy we are. Our human tastes like to take over and we find ourselves full of pride. How many religious have you met that take great pride in being one order or another? Sure, they will talk about how wonderful and holy the Saints of the order are and that the spirituality is beautiful, but all Saints are holy and wonderful and things that lead you close to Christ are beautiful, too. But there is no pride. To be holy, one must conquer pride.

Now, I am not saying it is not good to seek holy things in life, but we must seek them maturely and with great spiritual discernment and detachment. Great things come when the soul is mature. There are many other thoughts about this subject that have still yet to be thought about and considered. There are a great number of delicacies in this matter and need to be handled with care. I do not mean to upset anyone with my words, but please take them with a grain of humility and self-reflection. I too am guilty of committing these faults in my discernment. Please pray for me, and for holy and fervent priests and religious.[/quote]

ok i'll play the bad guy. from what you listed, i don't see them as being "too much". i'm sure it's because i do a lot of those things, and i know many who do. for me i think i do take part in those things, but it seems like i keep them to myself. i shy from those social "praise" situations, and although i like meeting Catholics from all over the community and talking about who we may know in common and how it's such a small "Catholic" world. i see them more as signs, whether i like them or not, especially the ones that get repetitive. i'd really rather be talking about my vocation and what i should do, and which order would be best for me. as i discern, i want to explore as much as possible and learn as much as i can. not just about orders, but including the Catholic faith. i like to learn new devotions and about medals and holy objects, so that i can find what is best suited for me or if any actually "work". not because i think it will lead me to an answer, but because that's my personality. i'm thinking the big ego and lack of humility thing is separate, so i wouldn't really tell anyone to cut back on the things you mentioned.. like you said, i would consider it more of a maturity issue.

so while reading your post i was waiting for the negative signs that would help me to avoid or help others to avoid obsession, but most of them seemed acceptable to me to grow in holiness and foster one's vocation. i'm sure anything can be taken too far, but as far as obsession, i haven't noticed this relationship with the people who seem to be lacking humility in certain areas. that is to say, if i stopped all the things you mentioned, i'd still be putting my foot in my mouth and making the same mistakes, except maybe even worse.

please don't take this as an attack. it seems like i'm the only one so perhaps i'm not seeing something. or maybe i just haven't met someone who is losing sight of their vocation and is becoming more of a "groupie" due to these things. : in either case i'd feel uncomfortable making that judgment to begin with..

[HeavenlyCalling]

An other thing that have seen is manipulating'signs'. I truely believe that God works through signs, and that asking for them is a good way to get awnsers. But then there are people, who want religious life more than to know God's will, and ask for signs they know they will get. Just my add-on.

[johnnydigit]

wishful thinking rather than God's will? somehow i think God knows the person will do this and so plans accordingly? or am i wishfully thinking too much? or maybe we shouldn't worry so much in the first place..

i say, more praise, more cheerleading for them and religious, more medals, more love, more power. let the kids go crazy for God. i'd rather be put away and be treated for God than for anything else out there.. here, have a cookie! :

[Chiquitunga]

Hey Angela,

I was going to say, those are some very interesting points you bring up about discernment vs. obsession. I would say the biggest difference would be that obsession would be a focus on what interests us (like a hobby, etc) vs. discernment - what are God's interests?

Anyone who knows me personally, knows I have a long history of going through different obsessions my whole life - Pippi Longstocking , horses (same here, DiscerningSoul! ), running ('til the knees gave out!), everything Irish/Celtic and many other things.

But what I've found since I began discerning a few years back, is that it has been instead a time of leaving of obsessions behind / gradually letting go of one's self. Like in the beginning, I remember I would go to pray the Rosary in a chapel but then come back to my dorm room and want to blast Jethro Tull or some other Classic Rock band .. Then I gradually let go of those things.

Of course, a sort of obsession could arise in discerning religious life, like how you were saying with different orders and everything. I'd say that's no problem really especially for young people - better to obsess about those kinds of things than others, as Annie was saying.

But yeah, I get what you're saying about the difference between obsession and discernment. Discernment would be more focusing on God and what He wants, and then the rest, like which order / what color habit, etc. just falls into place from there.

That's funny philosobrat, about how often we act as though people should treat us as royalty.

When I withdrew from college, I was terribly proud about how I felt the Lord calling me and about how I don't have to get a degree to be a cloistered nun. : Of course that was mixed in with a dislike for school that I had since junior high/ high school (which was well founded - so much of high school is a huge waste of time, I highly disliked it) I argued with the college Dean about it and also my academic advisor, about not needing a degree for contemplative religious life ... not really the spirit of humility and obedience (though what I was arguing [i]was[/i] true! ) The Lord had and still has a whole lot of work to do in me ..

But yeah, Angela, that's really interesting, about keeping one's vocation hidden - like how only a few knew of Our Lady's special vocation. I definitely like the idea of that. I'm happy to just keep my vocation within my family and a few friends at this point. Before we know it anyway, we'll all be in eternity and we'll have lots of time then to tell about our vocations with each other. It has been pretty incredible however learning of so many different people discerning here on phatmass, and all the unique vocations and religious communities out there, thanks to everyone here! God bless!

[my EVERYTHING!]

[quote]But yeah, Angela, that's really interesting, about keeping one's vocation hidden - like how only a few knew of Our Lady's special vocation. I definitely like the idea of that. I'm happy to just keep my vocation within my family and a few friends at this point.[/quote]
I think that it depends on what the person's charism is. I know that for me I 'let the whole world know' but it's to be a witness. Here (particularly among my classmates) the idea of someone becoming a nun is absolutely alien. Sometimes I get a lot of flack because of it, but I think that it's what God is calling me to do.


With regards to obsession, I know that for me sometimes I go on about [i]x[/i] order, person, or thing because it's important to me and it lets the other person know, but to actually talk about God and who He is for me is too close to my heart. I just can't do it. For example, there is a priest who means a lot to me, and my sisters can probably testify that I go on about him. But for me to think of him, I think of all the awesome, wonderful things God has shown me and done through him. I know that this priest is human, and there is [i][b]no way[/b][/i] that he is the centre of my world or whatever. But to speak of what God has done through him... It's just sooo personal. My life has completely changed because of it. If I start to talk about it I won't let the other person know anything because I'll just be like "God is totally awesome. He is soo good... (trail off into prolonged period of silence)."

Yeah, so, I don't think that I expressed myself particularly well there, but I hope that you get the point.

[puellapaschalis]

The society surrounding the person (and I think the things that FutureNun spoke about are more likely to be found amongst girls/women than boys/men) can play a large role. I know that living in the Netherlands has given me a nice big dollop of realism and humility - my parish priest and the people at church here may think it's really very wonderful that I'm discerning, but they'll also be the first to take me down a peg or two if they believe I'm strutting a bit. It's one of the things I really love about the Netherlands: no-one mollycoddles you!

[Maria]

[quote name='my EVERYTHING!' post='1315178' date='Jul 6 2007, 01:18 PM']I think that it depends on what the person's charism is. I know that for me I 'let the whole world know' but it's to be a witness. Here (particularly among my classmates) the idea of someone becoming a nun is absolutely alien. Sometimes I get a lot of flack because of it, but I think that it's what God is calling me to do.[/quote]
Really? then what's up with not wanting anyone to know (or not wanting us to tell anyone, at least).

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Sometimes telling everybody about your discernment can harm you. It isn't easy to listen for God if your ears are ringing with other people's opinions, criticisms, or exclamations. There is a reason why it was customary for the prophets to retreat into the desert silence when they needed to pray particularly hard about something. Jesus Himself was frequently to be found praying in 'a lonely place'.

Wanting to be a witness is a good thing. (I told an atheist classmate that I planned to be a nun in order to challenge him a little.) But our witness will surely be better if we concentrate on who we are [i]now[/i], rather than on talking about who we will [i]become[/i]. Your vocation doesn't begin on the day you enter the postulancy or the seminary or wherever. Our lives now aren't just a preamble to the 'real thing'. If you talk about your discernment all the time you may start living only for the future and forget the importance of this moment.