Obsession Or Discernment

[Piccoli Fiori JMJ]

When is the discernment of religious life, not discernment of religious life? This has been a question that I have been asking myself rather recently, and I have found myself pondering on it lately. I have seen a great number of young girls who have been discerning the religious life. Many of them are in high school or college, with a few beyond that even. I have seen several that thought they had a call, but have decided that it should not be further sought after for one reason or another. I have also seen, on the other hand, many young ladies who have become obsessed with religious life and becoming a Sister. Now, it is very good to have a desire for the religious life and have interest in it, but it is not healthy to have an obsession with it, just as it is not healthy to have an obsession with anything. Holy things are good, but an obsession is not healthy, and is really a great hindrance to becoming holy.

How can you tell the difference from true discernment of religious life from obsession? It is not easy to decipher either, unless you are spiritually mature. First, we must seek the Kingdom to find where the King desires us to be in His Kingdom. In these matters, I can speak from my own experience. Now, it really has not been until recently that I have felt some maturation of my soul. I would not even dare to say that my soul is totally mature even, but step by step, it is ascending.

Until quite recently, I have been an immature, and somewhat obsessed soul in discerning the religious life. I was there for the praise sometimes that I would get. Now, it was good holy praise, but if taken in and fed to the ego, it is no longer holy. For example, a friend would ask if I was still thinking about becoming a nun, and I would simply reply yes. They would say things like "Good!" "We'll be praying for you!" "That's great!" and the like. Now, not that any of these things are bad things to say, but if not taken with great humility, these bits of sugar feed the ego until it is inflated and one becomes very proud of their 'special' calling.

Now, do not get me wrong here. The call to the religious life is a precious and unique call! It truly is a special and very sacred thing to behold! It must be something revered like Mary's call was revered. How many people knew of her miraculous calling to be the Mother of God? Very few indeed! Her most chaste spouse, St. Joseph, surely knew as we are told this in the Scriptures. Elizabeth knew as well, for God had revealed it to her. They were told as to give glory to God. It was revealed only to those that needed to in God's great plan of salvation. Jesus Himself did not reveal the greatness of his mother on earth. Likewise, our calling needs to be protected and revered. Our calling is a great gift from God and ought not to be misused.

Still, there are more signs of obsession. One of which that I have seen in many young women, along with myself, is a desire to know as many Sisters and communities as possible, and when in conversation show off this knowledge of communities. Now, it is one thing if someone is asking for information or if anyone has been there and there is a response to that in the spirit of informing another. But if one thinks the more Religious they know makes them more knowledgeable about religious life in general and will speak only about 'their' community, it can be that pride has snuck into your calling. This matter though, is still touchy and can vary from case to case, as I am not totally done thinking about the matters discussed above.

Along the same lines as above though, is that once one finds a community that God is leading them towards, suddenly, without even enterance or acceptance to the community, they find themselves to be part of the community. If the community is Franciscan, suddenly, they are Franciscan too! They must only read Franciscan books and about Franciscan Saints! Oh! They must now find a favorite Franciscan Saint! Now, they must get Franciscan things! Medals, jewelry, statues, holy cards, books! They must get to know every Franciscan they see, or even seek them out, and let them know that they too will be a Franciscan! There is just so much, and they must immerse themselves in it all! Surely, does this not sound obsessive, even to the common man? Discerning the religious life calls us to detachment, not attachment. We must continue to grow spiritually. We cannot limit ourselves to one spirituality of one order or community. Is anyone ever really truly Franciscan then? Yes. When one enters the order. But, through and through, we must first seek to become holy. Becoming one order or another does not effect how holy we are. Our human tastes like to take over and we find ourselves full of pride. How many religious have you met that take great pride in being one order or another? Sure, they will talk about how wonderful and holy the Saints of the order are and that the spirituality is beautiful, but all Saints are holy and wonderful and things that lead you close to Christ are beautiful, too. But there is no pride. To be holy, one must conquer pride.

Now, I am not saying it is not good to seek holy things in life, but we must seek them maturely and with great spiritual discernment and detachment. Great things come when the soul is mature. There are many other thoughts about this subject that have still yet to be thought about and considered. There are a great number of delicacies in this matter and need to be handled with care. I do not mean to upset anyone with my words, but please take them with a grain of humility and self-reflection. I too am guilty of committing these faults in my discernment. Please pray for me, and for holy and fervent priests and religious.

[alicemary]

Self examination is always painful, but to grow one must strip oneself of pretenses. You have to go humbly before the Lord. When there is more you, then service, then something is wrong.
Religious life is no easy matter. It is not for children. That is why aspirancy programs that included 14 year olds are a thing of the past.
You are on the brink of self discovery, continue the journey. Be gentle on yourself as you grow. No one is a finished product before you step over the convent entrance.
Often young people are caught up in the fantasy of religious life. And you are so right about the obsessivness. Hey, I did it myself, so I know. But eventually you realize that religious life is really all about Jesus and service to others in His name.
Interesting thoughts!

[philosophette]

[quote name='FutureNunJMJ' post='1299879' date='Jun 22 2007, 02:06 PM']When is the discernment of religious life, not discernment of religious life?.........

Still, there are more signs of obsession. One of which that I have seen in many young women, along with myself, is a desire to know as many Sisters and communities as possible, and when in conversation show off this knowledge of communities. Now, it is one thing if someone is asking for information or if anyone has been there and there is a response to that in the spirit of informing another. But if one thinks the more Religious they know makes them more knowledgeable about religious life in general and will speak only about 'their' community, it can be that pride has snuck into your calling. This matter though, is still touchy and can vary from case to case, as I am not totally done thinking about the matters discussed above.

Along the same lines as above though, is that once one finds a community that God is leading them towards, suddenly, without even enterance or acceptance to the community, they find themselves to be part of the community. If the community is Franciscan, suddenly, they are Franciscan too! They must only read Franciscan books and about Franciscan Saints! Oh! They must now find a favorite Franciscan Saint! Now, they must get Franciscan things! Medals, jewelry, statues, holy cards, books! They must get to know every Franciscan they see, or even seek them out, and let them know that they too will be a Franciscan! There is just so much, and they must immerse themselves in it all! Surely, does this not sound obsessive, even to the common man? Discerning the religious life calls us to detachment, not attachment. We must continue to grow spiritually. We cannot limit ourselves to one spirituality of one order or community. Is anyone ever really truly Franciscan then? Yes. When one enters the order. But, through and through, we must first seek to become holy. Becoming one order or another does not effect how holy we are. Our human tastes like to take over and we find ourselves full of pride. How many religious have you met that take great pride in being one order or another? Sure, they will talk about how wonderful and holy the Saints of the order are and that the spirituality is beautiful, but all Saints are holy and wonderful and things that lead you close to Christ are beautiful, too. But there is no pride. To be holy, one must conquer pride.[/quote]


I think that you raise some excellent points and I know that most of us have probably also become a little too "hooked" on the idea of becoming a certain kind of nun. I think that problems arise when we make our entire life hinge on becoming a nun. We either hold off on school completely (without a good reason, such as you know you are entering soon and do not want to acquire the debt) or only go to school as a "penance" (moaning and groaning about how hard it is to "be in the world"). Then there are those who do have that kind of religious mania and need to have everything and know everything related to ______ Order. It can be a sign of immaturity, or someone totally new to the process of discernment or the faith. I do not look down upon them for it, but I think it is kind of imbalanced and God will work with them to mature, if they are open to him.

I think another issue that goes with this is the need to appear "holy" or "nunly" or whatever. We dress a certain way. We act a certain way because that is how we think a nun would/should act, but we do not really know. We delight in being praised for being so "recollected" in church, or something of that nature. Or we latch on to one person and want to be completely like them and we place them on a pedestal; that is a real set up for disappointment. Almost everything we do relates to religion in some way; we snap on those who suggest that we should "lighten-up" a little bit; how dare they question our devotion and avoidance of sin! (whereas they see us as a little too fixated on religion!)

Instead of realizing it is a call to be a servant of the Church, we act like we are royalty (clericalism or elitism) and worthy of esteem and praise (and are bothered if we are not, even though we may say we feel a call to serve). We develop a kind of arrogance, pride, intellectual know-it-all-ism, and are not open to hearing that perhaps we should discern other aspects of our vocation such as the married life or the single life. We become completely set on being a nun and if we are not a nun that is all that there is in life to be... so there! If we go on a discernment retreat we judge those around us as not being "good enough".


I think that many of us have been there in one way or another or experience those who are there, therefore I think it is of the utmost importance to have a good, balanced spiritual life, be someone who knows how to have fun in life, and who does not lord their religion over others.

Edited June 22, 2007 by philosobrat

[TheOliverOrder88]

I think this is related, at least in my case in discerning for the priesthood, to clericalism. I think time, maturity, and most of all prayer bring these out. If it is the Lord's will, it will last.

[stlmom]

Hi FutureNunJMJ!
There sure is a lot of food for thought in your post...the whole concept of being obsessed might have to do with youthful immaturity. I can recall when my kids were in middle and high school and we were lurching from one fad to another.
It can make person who seems obsessed awfully hard to be around for a while! Usually, in time, "this too shall pass". Either the person tires of "discerning" and moves on to the next thing to fixate upon, or they grow up a bit, settle down and continue discerning in a more productive way. I think God probably laughs at some of our silly behavior, at least I hope so!

[AccountDeleted]

I could be wrong, but obsession seems to be a phase of youth anyway, so how much better if the young person is obsessing about God and religious life instead of about sex or drugs or even things like role playing games (my brother was into these) or Star Wars (my nephew) or video games etc.

Sometimes obsession is just a step along the way to realization. And you are so right that maturity is what is needed to enter religious life - the good thing is that this seems to occur somewhat naturally for most people over time.

I wouldn't be worrying too much about pride showing up here - it will surely get knocked out along the way as the discerner eventually realizes that nothing can be done without God's grace and that having a vocation is a gift, not an achievement.

[be_thou_my_vision]

I thought I was getting obsessed, so I asked God to show me what to do or else I would quit discerning because I would think "the call" was something I was making up... don't know if that's kosher, but it worked for me. God answered my prayer and showed me the next step in my discernment and all the doors opened for me to continue discerning in a deeper way (postulancy). So, I guess me thinking "the call" was an obsession ultimately brought the focus back to God. So that's good.

[philosophette]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1299945' date='Jun 22 2007, 05:40 PM']I could be wrong, but obsession seems to be a phase of youth anyway, so how much better if the young person is obsessing about God and religious life instead of about sex or drugs or even things like role playing games (my brother was into these) or Star Wars (my nephew) or video games etc.[/quote]

Did someone say Star Wars?!?!

[DiscerningSoul]

As a teen I was OBESSED with horses! Couldn't pass a bookstore without buying a book on horses! Now that I have my own horse, well I still enjoy horses very much but to the point where I was as a teen.
as for my own discernment, I don't feel obessed about it, just love God overwhelmly!

Jessica
[url="http://xanga.com/adiscerningsoul"]http://xanga.com/adiscerningsoul[/url]

Edited June 23, 2007 by DiscerningSoul

[sr_betsy]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1299904' date='Jun 22 2007, 02:42 PM']Self examination is always painful, but to grow one must strip oneself of pretenses. You have to go humbly before the Lord. When there is more you, then service, then something is wrong.
Religious life is no easy matter. It is not for children. That is why aspirancy programs that included 14 year olds are a thing of the past.
You are on the brink of self discovery, continue the journey. Be gentle on yourself as you grow. No one is a finished product before you step over the convent entrance.
Often young people are caught up in the fantasy of religious life. And you are so right about the obsessivness. Hey, I did it myself, so I know. But eventually you realize that religious life is really all about Jesus and service to others in His name.
Interesting thoughts![/quote]

alicemary....what you said was so true. You could be a vocation director

sr. betsy

[sr_betsy]

[quote name='philosobrat' post='1299910' date='Jun 22 2007, 02:58 PM']I think that you raise some excellent points and I know that most of us have probably also become a little too "hooked" on the idea of becoming a certain kind of nun. I think that problems arise when we make our entire life hinge on becoming a nun. We either hold off on school completely (without a good reason, such as you know you are entering soon and do not want to acquire the debt) or only go to school as a "penance" (moaning and groaning about how hard it is to "be in the world"). Then there are those who do have that kind of religious mania and need to have everything and know everything related to ______ Order. It can be a sign of immaturity, or someone totally new to the process of discernment or the faith. I do not look down upon them for it, but I think it is kind of imbalanced and God will work with them to mature, if they are open to him.

I think another issue that goes with this is the need to appear "holy" or "nunly" or whatever. We dress a certain way. We act a certain way because that is how we think a nun would/should act, but we do not really know. We delight in being praised for being so "recollected" in church, or something of that nature. Or we latch on to one person and want to be completely like them and we place them on a pedestal; that is a real set up for disappointment. Almost everything we do relates to religion in some way; we snap on those who suggest that we should "lighten-up" a little bit; how dare they question our devotion and avoidance of sin! (whereas they see us as a little too fixated on religion!)

Instead of realizing it is a call to be a servant of the Church, we act like we are royalty (clericalism or elitism) and worthy of esteem and praise (and are bothered if we are not, even though we may say we feel a call to serve). We develop a kind of arrogance, pride, intellectual know-it-all-ism, and are not open to hearing that perhaps we should discern other aspects of our vocation such as the married life or the single life. We become completely set on being a nun and if we are not a nun that is all that there is in life to be... so there! If we go on a discernment retreat we judge those around us as not being "good enough".
I think that many of us have been there in one way or another or experience those who are there, therefore I think it is of the utmost importance to have a good, balanced spiritual life, be someone who knows how to have fun in life, and who does not lord their religion over others.[/quote]

You could be a vocation director, too

On a serious note, you are right, the call is to be a [i]servant[/i] not one who should be treated like royalty. You are going to make a wonderful religious.

sr betsy

[Veritas]

+

One thought: Saint Therese.

[sismaria]

It's good to look at your motives as you look at religious life. It's easier to get obsessed today when you sense you may be called because you have open to you so many communities because of the internet. When I felt called by God to be a religious, there was no internet. I knew the sisters I joined from high school. I wrote to the Felicians and I looked up the Carmelites in the phone book. Things were much easier, I think. And there wasn't the internet world to affirm your choice of a vocation either. In the real world there are a few people who are happy that you are going to the convent, but most I encountered were rather indifferent. So it wasn't very prideful to tell others of your vocation.
Our age of technology can add complications even to discerning God's call.
The age-old methods: prayer, reading the Scriptures, becoming familiar with the documents and teachings of the Church, knowing the lives of the Saints, these will help our discernment be discernment and God will wean us from the weaknesses toward which our nature is inclined.

Edited June 25, 2007 by sismaria

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='sismaria' post='1300992' date='Jun 25 2007, 11:42 AM']It's good to look at your motives as you look at religious life. It's easier to get obsessed today when you sense you may be called because you have open to you so many communities because of the internet. When I felt called by God to be a religious, there was no internet. I knew the sisters I joined from high school. I wrote to the Felicians and I looked up the Carmelites in the phone book. Things were much easier, I think. And there wasn't the internet world to affirm your choice of a vocation either. In the real world there are a few people who are happy that you are going to the convent, but most I encountered were rather indifferent. So it wasn't very prideful to tell others of your vocation.
Our age of technology can add complications even to discerning God's call.
The age-old methods: prayer, reading the Scriptures, becoming familiar with the documents and teachings of the Church, knowing the lives of the Saints, these will help our discernment be discernment and God will wean us from the weaknesses toward which our nature is inclined.[/quote]

Although I agree with many of your negatives about the Internet and technology, if these things were not in existence, I would not now be entering Carmel in England. I have never visited the monastery where I am going because I discerned via Internet and email. I am a mature vocation (age 55) and although I wrote via snail mail to 60 US Carmels, the majority of them rejected me because of my age. If I had not found the Wolverhampton convent on the Internet, I might never have thought it possible at my age that I would be accepted into a Carmelite monastery. Although personal visits are best, I agree, sometimes we just can't physically visit where we need to go, and in this case, the Internet and email are wonderful substitutes. I know that I have a fondness for technology because I was a computer teacher for many years, and not everyone agrees with me, but I think that God provides many ways for us to discern, and in this day and age, technology is just one of them.

[Totus Tuus]

FutureNunJMJ,

As a soul matures it will appreciate religious life for what it is. But to say that an obsession with religious life is detrimental (not that you said that) isn't right. I think most of the women I have seen who might be a little obsessed with religious life have 1) never actually lived it, and 2) are young! As a person matures, she can have the same joyful attitude towards religious life, but her giddy, girly feelings will be replaced with a deeper joy, and her experience of religious life will replace her preconceived ideas. And she'll still find joy! Our Lord doesn't want us to be sombre about our vocation, whatever it may be - there's a difference between the solemn attitude and the humble one. Humility requires a joyful attitude, and a constant recognition of what God has done for you, not what you are doing for God. If the knowledge of many communities and religious is being used by a woman for the wrong reasons (showing off, as you say), that's between her and God. It could be perfectly innocent... say, the girl lives in an area that has lots of religious and she's blessed to have a relationship with them all. There's nothing wrong with that.

I know this post is kind of all over the place, sorry! I'm no expert (everyone knows that : ) but every soul has its own motivation for its actions, and its own union with Our Lord that no one else can see.