Muslims Polish The "peaceful" Credentials Of Their Faith

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Seven77' post='1301367' date='Jun 25 2007, 03:09 PM']Let's not make generalizations without making necessary distinctions, lest we break Phatmass guidelines.

#2 Negative Criticism of Other Religions (see post at top of all phorums).[/quote]

But "necessary distinctions" is the point. Reza argues that we really don't understand Islam, that it's a religion of peace. What I'm saying is, the proof is in the pudding. Apart from Reza [i]saying[/i] that Islam is a religion of peace, what I [i]see[/i] is violence, domination, and intolerance. Please, someone, point me to the multitude of examples of Muslims denouncing violence, shunning those who practice violence, ostracizing those who practice "honor" killings, etc. By their fruits you shall know them, indeed.

[jeffpugh]

The above article was good. I didn't know about those things in the Qu'ran. The only thing I want to mention, though, is that Muslims see Christians, moreover Catholics, as blood thirsty Crusaders... where is this coming from?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1301385' date='Jun 25 2007, 03:58 PM']But "necessary distinctions" is the point. Reza argues that we really don't understand Islam, that it's a religion of peace. What I'm saying is, the proof is in the pudding. Apart from Reza [i]saying[/i] that Islam is a religion of peace, what I [i]see[/i] is violence, domination, and intolerance. Please, someone, point me to the multitude of examples of Muslims denouncing violence, shunning those who practice violence, ostracizing those who practice "honor" killings, etc. By their fruits you shall know them, indeed.[/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aghJ0TOFu3w"]The Truth About Muhammad - Part 1[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e88PVu7g-xs&mode=related&search="]The Truth About Muhammad - Part 2[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs0csccEbn8&mode=related&search="]The Truth About Muhammad - Part 3[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKFRErh26Ck&mode=related&search="]The Truth About Muhammad - Part 4[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iisOnbr_66s&mode=related&search="]The Truth About Muhammad - Part 5[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZouvtS3ocC0&mode=related&search="]The Truth About Muhammad - Part 6[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6q1DIwK3Is&mode=related&search="]The Truth About Muhammad - Part 7[/url]

[jeffpugh]

Dude, with all due respect, I sorta want a bit more a caption for a Youtube video other than "The Truth About Muhammad". As far as I know, you could be showing some sort of CNN caption of a terrorist attack... sorry about my paranoia.

[KnightofChrist]

Sorry...

Robert Spencer (the author of the article above) speaks at the heritage foundation, topic "Truth About Muhammad"

Edited June 25, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1301344' date='Jun 25 2007, 12:48 PM']So we shouldn't believe our own eyes when we see killing in the name of Islam, or when Muslims call for someone's death because he has the temerity to exercise freedom of thought and speech? Instead, we should believe you because you insist that Islam is a religion of peace that has been mischaracterized?

This is what I see:[list=1]
[*]Suicide / homicide killings
[*]"Honor" killings, and subjugation of women in general
[*]Advocacy of murder
[*]Religious intolerance
[*]You insisting that Islam is a religion of peace
[/list]The preponderance of evidence seems to be on one side.[/quote]

I never insisted that Islam was a religion of peace, anymore then Christianity. I'm glad that you mentioned honor killing, because it's not in the Quran and wasn't practiced by Muhammed [amongst other things you mentioned]. Suicide bombings, aren't done in the name of Islam but in the name of politics. You make over generalizations and fail to see the specifics of it, and it's pretty obvious that you've never ever even picked of a Qur'an [which is why Catholic Annonymous isn't posting no more].


[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1301364' date='Jun 25 2007, 01:49 PM']Let's not forget beheadings, mass executions, and kidnappings.[/quote]

I'm also glad that you mentioned this, because the United States practices the same thing. Gitmo [kidnappings], mass executions [have you seen our deathrow system, that even up until reciently executed children, children from crying out loud].


[quote name='Seven77' post='1301367' date='Jun 25 2007, 02:09 PM']Let's not make generalizations without making necessary distinctions, lest we break Phatmass guidelines.

#2 Negative Criticism of Other Religions (see post at top of all phorums).[/quote]

Thank you


[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1301385' date='Jun 25 2007, 02:58 PM']But "necessary distinctions" is the point. Reza argues that we really don't understand Islam, that it's a religion of peace. What I'm saying is, the proof is in the pudding. Apart from Reza [i]saying[/i] that Islam is a religion of peace, what I [i]see[/i] is violence, domination, and intolerance. Please, someone, point me to the multitude of examples of Muslims denouncing violence, shunning those who practice violence, ostracizing those who practice "honor" killings, etc. By their fruits you shall know them, indeed.[/quote]

You don't understand Islam, as you have yet to quote a single surah from the Quran, yet use your stereotypes to charectorize every Muslims as a potential terrorist. Except you forgoet, that it was through Islam that I accepted Christianity! You forget that Islam has it's roots in Christianity, just as Protestantism has it's roots in Christianity [check my previous posts].

Reza

[jeffpugh]

Good post, Reza.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1301442' date='Jun 25 2007, 07:11 PM']I never insisted that Islam was a religion of peace, anymore then Christianity. I'm glad that you mentioned honor killing, because it's not in the Quran and wasn't practiced by Muhammed [amongst other things you mentioned]. Suicide bombings, aren't done in the name of Islam but in the name of politics. You make over generalizations and fail to see the specifics of it, and it's pretty obvious that you've never ever even picked of a Qur'an [which is why Catholic Annonymous isn't posting no more].
I'm also glad that you mentioned this, because the United States practices the same thing. Gitmo [kidnappings], mass executions [have you seen our deathrow system, that even up until reciently executed children, children from crying out loud].
Thank you
You don't understand Islam, as you have yet to quote a single surah from the Quran, yet use your stereotypes to charectorize every Muslims as a potential terrorist. Except you forgoet, that it was through Islam that I accepted Christianity! You forget that Islam has it's roots in Christianity, just as Protestantism has it's roots in Christianity [check my previous posts].

Reza[/quote]
No one is characterizing "every " Muslim as a potential terrorist, only the ones who want to kill those of us that disagree with them. Muslim who issue fatwas ARE terrorists.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1301516' date='Jun 25 2007, 06:29 PM']No one is characterizing "every " Muslim as a potential terrorist, only the ones who want to kill those of us that disagree with them. Muslim who issue fatwas ARE terrorists.[/quote]

Go back and re-read, several of the previously posts charectorized every Muslim as a terrorist.

[Socrates]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1300942' date='Jun 24 2007, 09:13 PM']Just because you can find an individual that claims a hadeeth says something, doesn't make it fact. There are lots of Hadeeth interpreters throughout the Islamic World, one of my favorite being Al-Halabi, so to say, "such and such says, it must be true" doesn't have much common sense. Hadeeths are "sayings of Muhammed", and most Hadeeth scholars didn't live during the time of Muhammed, so you've gotta factor that in there.

Reza[/quote]
Ibn Ishaq is the earliest biographer of Mohammed, and was himself a Muslim. He wrote down what was handed down by contemporaries of Mohammed. He is regarded as generally reliable by historians. Since Ibn Ishaq was himself a devout Muslim, it's a bit hard to dismiss his writings as anti-Muslim propaganda!

But, oh well, he must have been wrong, since we all know what a peaceful guy that Mohammed really was!

[KnightofChrist]

[b][url="http://www.theindiancatholic.com/newsread.asp?nid=7935"]Catholic condemned to death for blasphemy tells of his trauma[/url][/b]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1301546' date='Jun 25 2007, 10:02 PM']Go back and re-read, several of the previously posts charectorized every Muslim as a terrorist.[/quote]
I have read every single post, and nowhere did ANY phatmasser say all muslims are terrorists.
Didn't happen.

[mortify]

Peace,

Let me first call to mind an event in Muhammad's life, just to put this whole article in context.

It is recorded in Islamic tradition, that there had been a poetess named Asma bint Marwan, who would sit in public places and sing verses that mocked Muhammad. When the Muslims gathered in the mosque for prayer, Muhammad asked the congregation, "Who will take care of this problem for me?" meaning, who will kill Asma bint marwan. It just so happened that Asma's servant was a convert to Islam, and he decided to take it upon himself to kill her. Late in the evening, when Asthma was sitting by the light, her servant approached her and stabbed her in the stomach. Asma was pregnant, and the thrusting of the dagger into her belly caused the fetus to be expelled. The next day the servant was so horrified that he would be punished that he literally shivered when Muhammad called him to the front of the mosque, but instead of scolding the servant, Muhammad ordered that no man hurt him.

This my friends, is the man who millions of Muslims consider the best model for mankind. How can we be surprised that clerics throughout the Muslim world would desire the murder of an author? I have never read Rushdie's book, from what I hear it's poorly written, but he is just another Asma bint Marwan.


Now to our friend Reza, who I think I'm beginning to understand,
[quote]I'd never made the statement of "Muslims are simply misunderstood", so maybe you shouldn't put words in my mouth. In terms of my views of Muslims, it's based upon my own experiences, as a convert from Islam and Muslim family members, not to mention being heavily involved in the human rights of Muslims.[/quote]

Yes, and perhaps your views are too emotionally involved.

There are many Muslims who would never hurt another human being, let alone Salman Rushdie, and they are at times some of the kindest people you can meet, many such Muslims are probably the ones Reza refers to as being part of his family. Perhaps Reza feels what we say about Islam somehow projects on to his family members (which it doesn't) or other Muslims he personally knows. We are simply talking about Islam from an objective point of view, and this point of view doesn't mean all Muslims are this way.

Many of us Reza, are at a loss how you can overlook the worst atrocities committed by Muslims, and yet attack the Catholic Church unscrupulously, which ought to be closer to your heart than the Islamic religion.

Edited June 26, 2007 by mortify

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1301564' date='Jun 25 2007, 07:13 PM']Ibn Ishaq is the earliest biographer of Mohammed, and was himself a Muslim. He wrote down what was handed down by contemporaries of Mohammed. He is regarded as generally reliable by historians. Since Ibn Ishaq was himself a devout Muslim, it's a bit hard to dismiss his writings as anti-Muslim propaganda!

But, oh well, he must have been wrong, since we all know what a peaceful guy that Mohammed really was! [/quote]

Hadeeths are highly debated, check your sources and you'll see that. Also Ibn wrote it down in Arabic, you're relying on a bad translation.

[jeffpugh]

why didn't you respond to mortify? I thought that was a good post. Reza, I don't portray your family or friends as terrorists, though I can't ignore what's going on. Heck, I have a friend who has a Muslim friend. They get along fine.