The Difference?

[Budge]

I think the bee dieoff is in preparation for the trib...

but there is nothing about a 50 year revival in Revelation.

[LouisvilleFan]

Too bad the bees are dying off. I like honey.

[jeffpugh]

Me too. (I'm just going to ignore Budge's annoying conclusions that are truly inaccurate)

[Budge]

[quote](I'm just going to ignore Budge's annoying conclusions that are truly inaccurate)[/quote]\


Bees are dying off worldwide, I have posted about this on my board, in Taiwan and Russia even


Bees are responsible for pollination of one third the food.

I know folks dont believe in Revelation around here but it warns of famines in the last days.

Nothing like this has ever happened in the world before,

and you shrug your shoulders and say my conclusions are "annoying"?

Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Chimeras--warned of in Bible

Famine--warned of in BIble.

Time to BELIEVE IT.

instead of shrugging it off.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Budge' post='1302492' date='Jun 26 2007, 09:02 PM']Nothing like this has ever happened in the world before,

and you shrug your shoulders and say my conclusions are "annoying"?

Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Chimeras--warned of in Bible

Famine--warned of in BIble.

Time to BELIEVE IT.

instead of shrugging it off.[/quote]

Countless famines have occurred since Revelation was written and so far, the world hasn't yet ended. Besides, what's the worst case scenario? Jesus comes back?

[kafka]

First,

For the love of God Budge some of your statments about Catholics are so sweeping that they completely lose their value in a debate.

That being said, I partially agree with some of your intrepretations concerning Revelation. And by the way there is a Catholic view of the Rapture and the Millenium. And there is no official Catholic intrepretation of Revelation. It is generally believed that the prophecies are a literal sequence of events culminating in the reign of Antichrist, the Second Coming of Christ, and the Millenium.

And yes Rev 6:6 does refer to the great worldwide famine, but first a war begins, and civil strife breaks out:


{6:1} And I saw that the Lamb had opened one of the seven seals. And I heard one of the four living creatures saying, in a voice like thunder: “Draw near and see.”
{6:2} And I saw, and behold, a white horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he went forth conquering, so that he might prevail.
{6:3} And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying: “Draw near and see.”
{6:4} And another horse went forth, which was red. And it was granted to him who was sitting upon it that he would take peace from the earth, and that they would kill one another. And a great sword was given to him.
{6:5} And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying: “Draw near and see.” And behold, a black horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a balance in his hand.
{6:6} And I heard something like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A double measure of wheat for a denarius, and three double measures of barley for a denarius, but do no harm to wine and oil.”

~notice this is a unique famine. Wheat and barley are staples, but the unharmed wine and oil represent luxuries. So luxury items will be available yet the staples of living will not. Also this famine will be more severe in some countries and less severe in other countries. That is why Holy Scripture says that a denarius buys only one quart of wheat, but three quarts of barley. Different grains are prevalent in different parts of the world. In one part of the world, where the famine is more severe, a day’s wages obtains less of the basic necessities (represented by the one quart of wheat). But in other areas, where the famine is less severe, a day’s wages obtains much more of the basic necessities (represented by the three quarts of barley).


{6:7} And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying: “Draw near and see.”
{6:8} And behold, a pale horse. And he who was sitting upon it, his name was Death, and Hell was following him. And authority was given to him over the four parts of the earth, to destroy by the sword, by famine, and by death, and by the creatures of the earth.

The reason the first four seals are described as horses and the others are not is that they occur simultaneously. The great famine has not yet occurred.

[GodChaser]

Hate to go all Scriptural on you Budge and others. But if I have to prove that there is a 50 year revival, than I have to do it.


Matthew 13:24-50, KJV -


Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Scripture says that the tares, the servants of the Devil are going to be taken first, and burnt in the firey furnance! Woot! I get excited when I think of that. Every satanic influence is taken off the earth, and then the church is gathered, raptured to be with our Lord and God!


Joel 2:1-11, KJV


Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.

Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.

They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:

Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.

They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.

The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?


The day of the lord, we are the ones on the horses, and doesn't that make you think of the 4 horsemen. The 4 horsemen are the church! We come bringing fire and destroy the those who the Lord will punish, again, the Tares are gathered first, therefore the Chruch is still on the earth, and all Satanic presence in the world is erradicated off the planet by us!


Joel 2:12-20, KJV -


Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:

And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.

Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?

Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:

Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that smell of elderberries the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?

Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.

Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:


The nation of Israel will be restored onto God. Who will restore it, but the Church. We will teach our Jewish Brethern of the greatness of Jesus Christ, our lord, god, saviour and redeemer!


Joel 2:21, KJV -


But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.


The Northern Army, and him is the Anti-Christ! He will have to spend some time in Desolation! Eat that! You're going to have to go into hiding! Having lost all your power base!


Joel 2:22-27, KJV -


Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.

Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.

Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil.

And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.

And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.


God then restores the phyiscal Israel, in its true borders, to the nation of Israel!


Joel 2:28-32, KJV -


And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.


And then the great tribulation happens!


Revelation 6:1-2, KJV -


And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Believe it or not, this is a friend of mine!


Revelation 6:3-4, KJV -


And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.


This is the War on Terror. Our 'friends', the Illuminati, want this war to convince us to give up on our rights. Too bad, the war is now be turned around by God, and many of us are now waring against them, taking back the territory they took in the spirit. Oh how it must vex you, so many people are learning about you right now, and taking back our world in the spirit! You meant to destroy us, but we are now fighting back!


Revelation 6:5-6, KJV -


And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.


Famine is coming soon, bringing judgement to the Illuminati, and the Satanic portions of the world! The Illuminati is creating this famine, to wipe out humanity through lack of food and a world wide famine.


Revelation 6:7-8, KJV-


And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.


Good Bye Illuminati. All your demonic spirits who are wandering the earth, corrupting humanity, destorying us, and deceiving us, you are going to meet Death and Hell finally. I promise you, it won't be pleasant when you finally meet your maker!

This will give us a great revival, because without their denomic influence around anymore, we can have a true move of God quickly and easily!


Revelation 6:9-11, KJV -

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

[b]And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.[/b]


Rest for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their breather, that should be killed as they are, should be fulfilled. What does this mean Budge? It means we enjoy rest from presecution for a time, which is 50 years, until the Jewish people come to Christ.

Then the saints start to get martyred by the Anti-Christ, and we pray for the Lord to avenge us!


Revelation 6:12-17, KJV -


And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Babylon is finally judged, ultimately, and finally, in this one moment!


Isaiah 28:13-19, KJV


- But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.


The sconers are going to have their covenant with death and hell disannulled by the head of all principalities and powers, Jesus Christ! This happens first, and then we have the great revival, as dicated by so many places in scripture. And then the Anti-Christ comes, to try to lead many way with his lies!

This is my final say on the matter, you can agree with my intrepretation of Scripture or not, it doesn't matter. The truth has been declared, and it will free all those who read it!

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Budge' post='1302492' date='Jun 26 2007, 09:02 PM']\
Bees are dying off worldwide, I have posted about this on my board, in Taiwan and Russia even
Bees are responsible for pollination of one third the food.

I know folks dont believe in Revelation around here but it warns of famines in the last days.

Nothing like this has ever happened in the world before,

and you shrug your shoulders and say my conclusions are "annoying"?

Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Chimeras--warned of in Bible

Famine--warned of in BIble.

Time to BELIEVE IT.

instead of shrugging it off.[/quote]

What I'm shrugging off is your accusations of Catholics not believing in the Bible. Alright, time for me to play this interpretation game. Lord bear me strength. Holy Spirit fill me.

[quote name='kafka' post='1302508' date='Jun 26 2007, 09:32 PM']First,

For the love of God Budge some of your statments about Catholics are so sweeping that they completely lose their value in a debate.

That being said, I partially agree with some of your intrepretations concerning Revelation. And by the way there is a Catholic view of the Rapture and the Millenium. And there is no official Catholic intrepretation of Revelation. It is generally believed that the prophecies are a literal sequence of events culminating in the reign of Antichrist, the Second Coming of Christ, and the Millenium.

And yes Rev 6:6 does refer to the great worldwide famine, but first a war begins, and civil strife breaks out:
{6:1} And I saw that the Lamb had opened one of the seven seals. And I heard one of the four living creatures saying, in a voice like thunder: “Draw near and see.”
{6:2} And I saw, and behold, a white horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he went forth conquering, so that he might prevail.
{6:3} And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying: “Draw near and see.”
{6:4} And another horse went forth, which was red. And it was granted to him who was sitting upon it that he would take peace from the earth, and that they would kill one another. And a great sword was given to him.
{6:5} And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying: “Draw near and see.” And behold, a black horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a balance in his hand.
{6:6} And I heard something like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A double measure of wheat for a denarius, and three double measures of barley for a denarius, but do no harm to wine and oil.”
{6:7} And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying: “Draw near and see.”
{6:8} And behold, a pale horse. And he who was sitting upon it, his name was Death, and Hell was following him. And authority was given to him over the four parts of the earth, to destroy by the sword, by famine, and by death, and by the creatures of the earth.[/quote]

Okay, I'm cutting off the quote at the verses so I can take a crack at what I've learned about Revelation. Then I'm goona yack about what GodChaser brought up (which I think are some excellent verses). First of all, each of the colours here mean something. White means "Joy/victory", and particularly pertaining to the martyrs (under Nero's persecution for the context of the scripture, though we could put it in a modern tense as well), red is the symbol of blood (Pretty obvious from the context), black is famine and death, and the pale (green) colour is death and decay, and most likely sickness. Now pertaining to our times, all of this will prolly happen. As Kafka is saying, necessities will be gone, but luxuries will remain. I see it is sort of a cruel punishment for our hedonistic culture. Maybe not cruel but more of a just one.

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1302640' date='Jun 26 2007, 10:42 PM']Hate to go all Scriptural on you Budge and others. But if I have to prove that there is a 50 year revival, than I have to do it.
Matthew 13:24-50, KJV -
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Scripture says that the tares, the servants of the Devil are going to be taken first, and burnt in the firey furnance! Woot! I get excited when I think of that. Every satanic influence is taken off the earth, and then the church is gathered, raptured to be with our Lord and God!
...

This is my final say on the matter, you can agree with my intrepretation of Scripture or not, it doesn't matter. The truth has been declared, and it will free all those who read it![/quote]

Amen, brother. Anywho, I'm going to pay attention to this first part about the wheat. It seems to have a connection with Revelation 6 because of the references to wheat and barley. I think this could mean that the wheat (the followers) are going to be fewer in the future. Just take a look: we have large Communist blocks (which is basically atheist), our lazy society that is throwing out God and morals, and then there is the rest, which is for God (but not all are for Christ though). Either we're going to be expecting a renewal soon or we're going to see the end times. There is a mention somewhere (I can't remember exactly. Don't have my bible on me) that Jesus said something around the lines of "when I come again will there be any believers?" (paraphrase). It might be a hint to the scarcity. I just hope there isn't a scarcity. I hope for peace and love for Christ. Anywho that is my crack at this. I'm not trying to appease anybody, I'm just making a point that Catholics can interpret too. I'm sure if I put more effort than ten minutes worth of thinking and typing together, I could list miles of scripture. That really isn't the point though. I'm not a bible-thumper.