Did Billy Graham's Wife Die Naturally Or Commit Suicide?

[Proud2BCatholic139]

Be prepared by loving our Lord, Jesus, every second of the day, and never let Him out of your thoughts. Be prepared by recieving the Sacraments daily. Be prepared by praying the Rosary.

Don't worry about tomorrow, it may never come. Live day by day with God. Because with God, there is no human time, only on His time.

May God bless you.

[Katholikos]

Death raises ethical questions. One is whether doctors or family members have the right to withdraw food and water being administered to a patient through a feeding tube. The patient then may die from dehydration or starvation rather than from the condition or illness with which they are afflicted. This question has been clearly answered by the Church. Another is whether a patient himself/herself can deliberately refuse food or water being administered through a feeding tube [i][b]in order to hasten his/her death[/b][/i] without incurring sin. I'm looking for the Church's teaching on this question. Patients who cannot eat or drink are obviosly excluded. The question concerns [u]voluntary, knowing refusal.[/u],

Perhaps those who are critical of this thread have never had to face these situations. They raise real ethical questions. Obviously, this was the wrong discussion group in which to pose the question. I should have addressed it to a more mature audience. I am asking what does the Church teach in this situation? Most of what I've gotten so far (except from Paddington, thanks Paddington) is heat for asking the question!

The action Mrs. Graham took is only an illustration of my question. As Catholics, it goes without saying that we cannot judge her conscience or her soul. We can't know all the circumstances, but the action seems to have been deliberate, after consultation with the family, according to the news release. The media often gets it wrong. Nevertheless, the question remains.

Likos

[Proud2BCatholic139]

I don't recall reading a question.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1296303' date='Jun 15 2007, 08:59 PM']I read somewhere that St. Catherine of Siena died after she refused food and water for many days.[/quote]


From the Catholic encyclopedia:
After a prolonged and mysterious agony of three months, endured by her with supreme exultation and delight, from Sexagesima Sunday until the Sunday before the Ascension, she died


There is no mention of what you say anywhere. It may be that she was fasting and died during the fast or that she was unable to eat. Perhaps she could not keep them down in her illness. JP II said that it is immoral to not take normal nutrition and so one cannot morally die in this manner. I will leave it to God to judge Mr. Graham's wife.

Edited June 16, 2007 by thessalonian

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1296806' date='Jun 16 2007, 01:22 PM']Perhaps those who are critical of this thread have never had to face these situations. They raise real ethical questions. Obviously, this was the wrong discussion group in which to pose the question. I should have addressed it to a more mature audience. I am asking what does the Church teach in this situation? Most of what I've gotten so far (except from Paddington, thanks Paddington) is heat for asking the question!

The action Mrs. Graham took is only an illustration of my question. As Catholics, it goes without saying that we cannot judge her conscience or her soul. We can't know all the circumstances, but the action seems to have been deliberate, after consultation with the family, according to the news release. The media often gets it wrong. Nevertheless, the question remains.

Likos[/quote]

It's pretty clear that this thread was designed to slander Mrs. Graham, not to discuss her particular case that applies to the masses.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1296899' date='Jun 16 2007, 05:40 PM']From the Catholic encyclopedia:
After a prolonged and mysterious agony of three months, endured by her with supreme exultation and delight, from Sexagesima Sunday until the Sunday before the Ascension, she died
There is no mention of what you say anywhere. It may be that she was fasting and died during the fast or that she was unable to eat. Perhaps she could not keep them down in her illness. JP II said that it is immoral to not take normal nutrition and so one cannot morally die in this manner. I will leave it to God to judge Mr. Graham's wife.[/quote]


Its just something I read, don't know how true it is... I googled for some more info and I've never read it but there is a patently a book called "Holy Anorexia" which is about the life and death of St. Catherine of Siena. This book is probably where the info I read came from.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1296806' date='Jun 16 2007, 04:22 PM']Death raises ethical questions. One is whether doctors or family members have the right to withdraw food and water being administered to a patient through a feeding tube. The patient then may die from dehydration or starvation rather than from the condition or illness with which they are afflicted. This question has been clearly answered by the Church. Another is whether a patient himself/herself can deliberately refuse food or water being administered through a feeding tube [i][b]in order to hasten his/her death[/b][/i] without incurring sin. I'm looking for the Church's teaching on this question. Patients who cannot eat or drink are obviosly excluded. The question concerns [u]voluntary, knowing refusal.[/u],

Perhaps those who are critical of this thread have never had to face these situations. They raise real ethical questions. Obviously, this was the wrong discussion group in which to pose the question. I should have addressed it to a more mature audience. I am asking what does the Church teach in this situation? Most of what I've gotten so far (except from Paddington, thanks Paddington) is heat for asking the question!

The action Mrs. Graham took is only an illustration of my question. As Catholics, it goes without saying that we cannot judge her conscience or her soul. We can't know all the circumstances, but the action seems to have been deliberate, after consultation with the family, according to the news release. The media often gets it wrong. Nevertheless, the question remains.

Likos[/quote]
Likos it doesn't say that she recovered from the pneumonia, only that she was being treated for it. If they told her she was going to die, and eating or drinking was burdensome and just prolonging her death by a day or two, then it should be alright to refuse food. If death is the soon and inevitable outcome, what is wrong with welcoming death and eternity a day or so early.
My mother refused to eat the last few days of her life, it just wasn't worth the effort.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1297045' date='Jun 16 2007, 08:03 PM']My mother refused to eat the last few days of her life, it just wasn't worth the effort.[/quote]

Wow, thanks for sharing... that's deep.

[Birgitta Noel]

It's important to remember that the distinction of extraordinary vs ordinary means is not objective.

There's no list of ordinary means. The identification of something as one or the other is left to the judgment of the individual who must determine whether the proposed treatment is overly burdensome in light of its potential benefit. The burden may be physical or psychological.

Thus, one might refuse a feeding tube or ask for it to be withdrawn if they recognized that their death was eminent and that the tube was of little benefit and deemed by them to be excessively burdensome.

Feeding tubes may not provide adequate nutrition to a person to be of any benefit. Especially in the dying process. There are also instances where the body cannot assimilate the nutrition and hydration and becomes bloated.

One cannot remove or withhold artificial nutrition and hydration if doing so would be the exclusive cause of ones death. This is why many felt that Schiavo was murdered. The removal of the tube caused her death. She didn't have pneumonia or cancer etc.

The example of JPII is very telling. He refused to go back to the Gemelli hospital and chose to die at home. There's always something "more" that we can try to do, but sometimes it is too much of a burden and we choose to not artificially prolong a dying process and our return to the house of the Father.

My father died of metastatic melanoma (skin cancer). He did not have a feeding tube of any sort. It would not have provided him any benefit. His central nervous system was attacked by the cancer and when he died after 12 days of agonizing pain his heart simply stopped. He did not starve to death. Nutrition and hydration would have not been at all beneficial nor was he hungry.

Edited June 17, 2007 by The Little Way

[jckinsman]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1296806' date='Jun 16 2007, 03:22 PM']Death raises ethical questions. One is whether doctors or family members have the right to withdraw food and water being administered to a patient through a feeding tube. The patient then may die from dehydration or starvation rather than from the condition or illness with which they are afflicted. This question has been clearly answered by the Church. Another is whether a patient himself/herself can deliberately refuse food or water being administered through a feeding tube [i][b]in order to hasten his/her death[/b][/i] without incurring sin. I'm looking for the Church's teaching on this question. Patients who cannot eat or drink are obviosly excluded. The question concerns [u]voluntary, knowing refusal.[/u],

Perhaps those who are critical of this thread have never had to face these situations. They raise real ethical questions. Obviously, this was the wrong discussion group in which to pose the question. I should have addressed it to a more mature audience. I am asking what does the Church teach in this situation? Most of what I've gotten so far (except from Paddington, thanks Paddington) is heat for asking the question!

The action Mrs. Graham took is only an illustration of my question. As Catholics, it goes without saying that we cannot judge her conscience or her soul. We can't know all the circumstances, but the action seems to have been deliberate, after consultation with the family, according to the news release. The media often gets it wrong. Nevertheless, the question remains.

Likos[/quote]

I think that this topic is very compelling. I think as catholic's we must be ready to explore these very real ethical questions of our day. The times that we live in call for us to make sure that we have a well informed consceince. I absoulutly do not think that Likos has ill intent here. Let's just say, I think whomever, the person was that might have done this,Likos could have questioned it anyway. It's not about the PERSON its about the "question of the action". I left what I have found on suicide from the new advent.
The thing about this is we have gone into a whole new era. New ethical questions arise all the time. So why should we not ask the tough questions if we really are questioning where we draw the line in the sand!?

Edited June 17, 2007 by jckinsman

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1297059' date='Jun 16 2007, 08:24 PM']edited[/quote]

What's the personal attack about? She shared something close to her heart, that applied to this conversation and I told her thank you, because it was very bold for her to share, and uplifting to the conversation... so tell me... is this the type of hostilities that you consider to be "Catholic"? Honestly, I don't think too highly of you either [and I know that I'm not even remotely the only one], but I definately wouldn't stoop as long as you just did and I'm even going to report you to the moderators.

Reza

Edited June 17, 2007 by IcePrincessKRS
original post has been removed

[KnightofChrist]

Your comment was to put Cmom down, it was condescending. Just as you were in post 11. Anyone can see that. Report me.

Edited June 17, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[KnightofChrist]

PS I've reported myself.

[cmotherofpirl]

I don't think it was meant as a put down KoFC, just a odd way of putting a thought.

My mother was dying of pancreatic and liver cancer, food was not really an issue at that point. Nothing short of God Almighty could have helped her.
She told me Jesus was standing at the foot of the bed waiting for her, whats that compared to a few calories?

[jckinsman]

Whoa guys, I've been here! I really don't think RL was saying it to mean slander,read it over again and picture it the way he said he really meant it.