Mary55908 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 O.K. , I am not here to harass or anger anyone, however, I may do so .. and I apologize if I do so. That said, I don't believe in god. The reason I am posting here is because I want to know if I am wrong. This is my eternal soul we are talking about, but .. it all sounds like mythical nonsense and if it's true it's important. Again like I said, I'm just having trouble believing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 welcome to phatmass! you've come to the right place for theological discussion, and even a bit of fun. ... Many much more intelligent people than i will surely post in this thread. however, i'd like to make a couple suggestions. i've read a couple of different books by c.s. lewis discussing this topic. Mere Christianity is really good...also Miracles. the two books make a basic defense of christianity and an attempt to prove God's existence. it is easy to follow his reasoning, especially because he was a staunch atheist for quite a while. he logically came to the conclusion that christianity must be true, and he shares that logic. both books are extremely helpful for both christians and atheists. you can check them out at the library, but i find it helpful to annotate them. i would suggest buying first mere christianity and if you like it buy miracles. ...anyway they helped me. once again, welcome! hope you enjoy this phorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddington Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 [quote name='Mary55908' post='1295670' date='Jun 15 2007, 02:31 AM']O.K. , I am not here to harass or anger anyone, however, I may do so .. and I apologize if I do so. That said, I don't believe in god. The reason I am posting here is because I want to know if I am wrong. This is my eternal soul we are talking about, but .. it all sounds like mythical nonsense and if it's true it's important. Again like I said, I'm just having trouble believing it.[/quote] Hi Mary I believe in God, but I don't have a religion. So I can relate a lil. The whole "this is my eternal soul we are talking about" is on my mind quite a bit. The funniest thing is that those who make us worry about that also believe that worrying is a sin. Not saying that worrying is good! They are right about that. But STILL. I just read a book called "Simply Christian" by N.T. Wright. It is a compelling book by a really sharp Anglican bishop. He writes in a way that can do a lot for people without concrete beliefs. He is known for working with skeptics and maintaining his faith. He keeps skeptics in mind as he writes. It really shows thru. Well....maybe that can do something for you. Peace, Paddington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Have you ever believed in God? If so, why did you change your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary55908 Posted June 15, 2007 Author Share Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) Yes I used to believe in god.. but it seemed that the idea was inconsistent with reality. It just seems weird that god would exist but not ever show him or herself in any solid sense. I understand that the reason given for this is having to do with free will, but I don't think making oneself known would change how we follow rules. Why would he only reveal him or herself in stories? And why Christianity? Why not Zeus, Osiris, Isis, Or Krishna? And I don't mean to sound pompous, but the bible also warns of false gods.. how are we supposed to know the true god without proof? It .. it just seems really really made up.. EDIT: PS.. I'll look into those books suggested Edited June 15, 2007 by Mary55908 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Sorry if this is too personal too fast, but I'm wondering if there was a specific event that convinced you that the idea of God is inconsistent with reality. Or, was it a longer-term process of questioning? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 paraphrasing of Peter Kreeft argument of God by design... All design implies a designer, everyone admits this principle in practice even atheist. Imagine you came to a deserted island and saw "S.O.S." written in the sand. Would you believe that the winds and waves had written it by chance? Or would you believe someone else intelligent enough to design and write the message had done so? Say that you also found on this island a small house made of stone, with windows, doors, and such. Would you think a hurricane had plied all that up by chance? Doubtful, You would automatically believe that someone had designed and built the house, as well as written "S.O.S." in the sand. It's just plain logic. There could be a one in a trillion chance that "S.O.S." could have been written in the sand by the wind or waves. But what logical person would use this one in a trillion argument? It has been said "if you sat a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would eventually type out all of Hamlet by chance." However when we read Hamlet we don't wonder if it came from chance monkeys typing for millions of years. Why does the atheist use this incredibly improbable explanation for the universe? Probably because it is his only way of remaining an atheist. There is a logical explanation of the universe. It's called God. The human brain is the most complex piece of design in the universe. It is like a computer. Now, image there was a computer that was programmed by chance. For instance, suppose you were in a plane and a voice announced that there is no pilot, but the plane would be flown by a computer which was programmed by a random fall of hailstones on its keyboard. How much trust would you have in the pilot? But if the human brain which is like a computer has no intelligent designer who programmed it, why trust it at all? If the temperature of the primal fireball that resulted from the Big Bang, had been a trillionth of a degree colder or hotter, the carbon molecule that is the foundation of life could never have developed. The number of possible universes is trillions of trillions; only one of them could support human life: this one. If the cosmic rays had bombarded the primordial slime at a slightly different angle or time or intensity, the hemoglobin molecule, necessary for all warm-blooded animals, could never have evolved. The chance of this molecule's evolving is something like one in a trillion trillion. Add together each of the chances and you have something far more unbelievable than a million monkeys writing Hamlet. There are few atheists among neurologists and brain surgeons and among astrophysicists, but many among psychologists, sociologists, and historians. The reason seems obvious: the first study divine design, the second study human undersign. Design obviously exist in the human brain, so did this come from something with less or no design? Such an explanation violates the principle of causality, which states that you can't get more in the effect than you had in the cause. If there is intelligence in the effect (man), there must be intelligence in the cause. But a universe ruled by blind chance has no intelligence. Therefore there must be a cause for human intelligence that transcends the universe: a mind behind the physical universe. (Most great scientists have believed in such a mind, by the way, even those who did not accept any revealed religion.) How much does this argument prove? Not all that the Christian means by God, of course, no argument can do that. But it proves a pretty thick slice of God: some designing intelligence great enough to account for all the design in the universe and the human mind. If that's not God, what is it? Steven Spielberg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Having been one, once upon a time, I observe that it's highly unusual for a professed atheist to believe that he or she has an immortal soul -- or a soul at all. You wrote: "This is my immortal soul we're talking about." Could it be that your atheism is already on the wane? Welcome to phatmass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 [quote name='Mary55908' post='1295737' date='Jun 14 2007, 11:48 PM']And why Christianity? Why not Zeus, Osiris, Isis, Or Krishna? And I don't mean to sound pompous, but the bible also warns of false gods.. how are we supposed to know the true god without proof? It .. it just seems really really made up.. EDIT: PS.. I'll look into those books suggested[/quote] Read this [url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/conscience.htm"]http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/conscience.htm[/url] or [b]listen[/b] to this [url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/18_god-existence.htm"]http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/18_god-existence.htm[/url] or this [url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/08_arguments-for-god.htm"]http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/08_arguments-for-god.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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