One True Church

[Guest]

[quote name='reyb' post='1727568' date='Dec 14 2008, 05:23 AM'][indent]I am glad, you are grateful in your religious life. Although, someone in protestant side will say the same thing ‘I am grateful being a member of my Church’. If only there is neither Catholics nor Protestants but simply ‘Christian Church’ then both of you are grateful and at that one Church. But pride comes when anyone of you will say ‘My Church is the True Church of Christ leaving behind Other Churches as if they are not Church of Christ too.[/indent][/quote]

But the church teaches that those other christian churches members are brothers and sisters in christ. You need authority so your not guessing all the time. You need the sacraments so you can work your faith out in fear and trembling. Not all these other "christian churches" are offering the tools needed for salvation. I want to be sure im in a church Christ founded and I have the tools to stack up rewards in heaven and be confident in my walk with Christ.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='reyb' post='1727568' date='Dec 14 2008, 05:23 AM'][indent]I am glad, you are grateful in your religious life. Although, someone in protestant side will say the same thing ‘I am grateful being a member of my Church’. If only there is neither Catholics nor Protestants but simply ‘Christian Church’ then both of you are grateful and at that one Church. But pride comes when anyone of you will say ‘My Church is the True Church of Christ leaving behind Other Churches as if they are not Church of Christ too.[/indent][/quote]
It isn't pride, its simple historical fact: Jesus Christ founded only one Church. The Orthodox left the Church founded by Jesus, and then the protestant deformation occurred, both wounding Christ. Are the splintered groups to be considered equal to the original Church founded by Jesus ? Its not possible. They may have kernals of truth, but the original Church has the whole enchilada.


Chronological history of Christianity:
If you are a member of the Jewish faith, your religion was founded by Abraham about 4,000 years ago.
If you are a Hindu, your religion was developed in India around 1,500 B.C.

If you are a Buddhist, your religion split from Hinduism, and was founded by Buddha, Prince Siddhartha Gautama of India, about 500 B.C.

If you are Catholic, Jesus Christ began your religion in the year 33.

If you are Islamic, Mohammed started your religion in what is now Saudi Arabia around 600 A.D.

If you are Eastern Orthodox, your sect separated from Catholicism around the year 1000.

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded my Martin Luther, an ex-Monk of the Catholic Church, in 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England (Anglican), your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded when John Knox brought the teachings of John Calvin to Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Unitarian, your religious group developed in Europe in the 1500's

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion branched off from Puritanism in the early 1600's in England.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1607.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are an Episcopalian, your religion was brought over from England, to the American colonies and formed a separate religion founded by Samuel Seabury in 1789.

If you are a Mormon (Latter-Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your church in Palmyra, N.Y., NOT Salt Lake City, which would have been my guess. The year was 1830.

If you worship with the Salvation Army (yes, it's a religious group, not just an organization that collects money in kettles on Christmas and serves dinners to the homeless), your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year your religion was founded by Mary Baker Eddy.

If you are a Jehovah's Witness, your religion was founded by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania in the 1870's.

If you are a Pentecostal, your religion was started in the United States in 1901.

If you are an agnostic, you profess an uncertainty or a skepticism about the existence of God or a Higher Being.

If you are an atheist, you do not believe in the existence of God or any other higher power.

THis list of course doesn't include those "generic christians" or groups that have formed in the last 100 years or so.

[reyb]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1727787' date='Dec 14 2008, 03:40 PM']It isn't pride, its simple historical fact: Jesus Christ founded only one Church.[/quote]
.................

[indent]If this is historical fact then the existence of historical Jesus is 'historical reality' and can be proven beyond doubt. But the problem is this - who told you that the scriptures and all witnessess of God's power and wisdom is referring to your historical Jesus? Therefore, you need to prove to me his historical existence otherwise, it will remain just a 'belief'. If historical Jesus is just a belief, this establishment of a church is again another 'belief'. [/indent]

[reyb]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1727659' date='Dec 14 2008, 01:34 PM']But the church teaches that those other christian churches members are brothers and sisters in christ. You need authority so your not guessing all the time. You need the sacraments so you can work your faith out in fear and trembling. [color="#0000FF"]Not all these other "christian churches" are offering the tools needed for salvation.[/color] I want to be sure im in a church Christ founded and I have the tools to stack up rewards in heaven and be confident in my walk with Christ.[/quote]

[indent]Is it not 'pride' to say 'Not all these other "Christian churches" are offering the tools needed for salvation.' as if you are saying ‘our sacraments are truly accepted by God but their offering is not’ but, did you hear God himself after all those 2000 plus years of offering in the altar? You learn to condemn Jewish Traditions by saying their offering of bulls and goats are nonsense but did you ever asked yourself why they did it? Is it not because of ‘faith’ too? So, therefore, in what way you become better than them? [/indent]

[reyb]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1727658' date='Dec 14 2008, 01:27 PM'][color="#0000FF"]If we as you say, overlook the serious differences and disagreements we have with eachother and simply unite into One Church, (which for some reason you don't think thats what everyone here wants the rest of them to unite with us), irrespective of the serious disagreements, then we are giving the Bible, God, jesus, the Holy Spirit and His message a great big ol' slap in the face, because we are prioritizing unity before Truth.[/color]This is why the Protestants are not game on your suggestion either. We cannot unite until these serious disagreements are resolved. Otherwise, if we just unite, it will only result in a Balkanisation of the Church.[/quote]

[indent]Yes, you got it. Actually, this is what Apostle Paul said in his letter. Let us all be together although there are 'disagreement' then you will see the 'Truth'.[/indent]

Edited December 15, 2008 by reyb

[reyb]

[quote name='reyb' post='1727941' date='Dec 14 2008, 09:54 PM'][indent]Yes, you got it. Actually, this is what Apostle Paul said in his letter. Let us all be together although there are 'disagreement' then you will see the 'Truth'.[/indent][/quote]

[indent]We have been warned ‘not to lean’ on our own understanding (Ps 3:5) much more to say, to presume to be teachers in matters of Spirituality (James 3:1-2) because, false teachers are teachers. We all know what disaster it will bring to themselves and also to others.

On the other hand, Christ disciples are commanded to preach the gospel. Of course, all of us wanted to obey God but what had happen? One preacher say ‘this is the truth’, while another say ‘this is the truth’ and still more preachers will say ‘this is the truth’ but all of them are looking at different directions, they learn to ignore the feelings and sometimes even hate one another, and worst of all they did it in name of Christ. Protestants and Catholics are the same. If Protestants are doing this separation because they do not believe Roman Catholics Church, the Catholics too did this against Gnostic Christians in early days of Christianity. So what is the difference?

Why not all us come together us a Church? No more Protestants or Catholics, just simply Christians. Why not all of us listen to our Apostle Paul when said

[color="#FF0000"]In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval[/color]. (1 Cor 11:18-19)

Apostle Paul knows there will be differences but, it will bring God’s approval in the process of coming together. Yes, there are differences but still he called it Church as a whole.

He also said ‘[color="#FF0000"]May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God’[/color]. (Rom 15:5-8)

In other word, he really expects that there will be disagreement that may cause disunity because he is hoping that ‘we will learn to accept one another’ as if he is saying ‘Do not give up come together and accept one another as a Church’.

But, what happen to the entire Christianity, they decided to separate one from the other, one group against another from the very beginning using 1 Cor 1:10

[color="#FF0000"]I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.[/color]
-------------------------
And at once these teachers and their followers decided to come together and make themselves ‘united in mind and thought’ in their theology or whatever and separate one from the other. But, all of them did not even try to understand what Apostle Paul really mean when he said ‘all of you agree with one another’. Did they asked themselves ‘…all of you agree about what? And do you know what is it?.....look a little bit further on these verses and you will see - all of us must agree on this - ‘[b]not to judge, wait till the Lord comes, do not go beyond what is written[/b] So that nobody will take pride against another’[/indent]

[indent]Now, is it impossible for all of us to become 'One Church' although there are differences? But the question is Why?[/indent]

[Guest]

[quote name='reyb' post='1727937' date='Dec 14 2008, 10:47 PM'][indent]Is it not 'pride' to say 'Not all these other "Christian churches" are offering the tools needed for salvation.' as if you are saying ‘our sacraments are truly accepted by God but their offering is not’ but, did you hear God himself after all those 2000 plus years of offering in the altar? You learn to condemn Jewish Traditions by saying their offering of bulls and goats are nonsense but did you ever asked yourself why they did it? Is it not because of ‘faith’ too? So, therefore, in what way you become better than them? [/indent][/quote]


Whoever does not eat my body and drink my blood has no life in them. If I cant go recieve communion at church or confess sins that are mortal to a pastor then what am I doing there ? I have been to many churchs and I have nothing to say negative about them. I have found the love of Christ at all of them. But I cant go to these churches every week and be able to confess mortal sin there or recieve Christ himself in the eucharist. These are the reasons I choose to attend a catholic church. Plus im convinced that its the church Christ founded. And lastly I dont find myself better then no christian, although I do find myself lucky because Christ has revealed the truth to me and has given me the tools (sacraments) to work out my salvation in fear and trembling so I dont just have faith alone.

Edited December 15, 2008 by Guest

[reyb]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1728275' date='Dec 15 2008, 01:11 PM']Whoever does not eat my body and drink my blood has no life in them. If I cant go recieve communion at church or confess sins that are mortal to a pastor then what am I doing there ? I have been to many churchs and I have nothing to say negative about them. I have found the love of Christ at all of them. But I cant go to these churches every week and be able to confess mortal sin there or recieve Christ himself in the eucharist. These are the reasons I choose to attend a catholic church. Plus im convinced that its the church Christ founded. And lastly I dont find myself better then no christian, although I do find myself lucky because Christ has revealed the truth to me and has given me the tools (sacraments) to work out my salvation in fear and trembling so I dont just have faith alone.[/quote]
[indent]We are all at the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ. I wish you good luck in your religious life.[/indent]

[Guest]

[quote name='reyb' post='1729493' date='Dec 16 2008, 06:36 AM'][indent]We are all at the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ. I wish you good luck in your religious life.[/indent][/quote]

ya but why not be part of his church ? so when the false christ comes you wont be decieved ?

[reyb]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1729720' date='Dec 16 2008, 02:38 PM']ya but why not be part of his church ? so when the false christ comes you wont be decieved ?[/quote]
[indent]Does your Church really know who the real Jesus is? Tell me and I will do it. Otherwise, why should I let myself be part of your Church?[/indent]

[Giolla]

So what you are telling us that there was a Jesus on Earth before Jesus was on Earth? Peter was given authority and he passed it down and the same has been going on up to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. Even the early church Fathers talked about THE CHURCH and BISHOPS.

[reyb]

[quote name='Giolla' post='1730172' date='Dec 17 2008, 01:25 AM']So what you are telling us that [color="#0000FF"]there was a Jesus on Earth before Jesus was on Earth?[/color] Peter was given authority and he passed it down and the same has been going on up to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. Even the early church Fathers talked about THE CHURCH and BISHOPS.[/quote]

[indent]In short, there are two historical Jesus or let us say the same Jesus but come in this world many times. Both of these analyses are wrong. It is written in Heb 13:7-8 [color="#FF0000"]Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.[/color] Therefore, anything and everything about this Christ and his coming in the flesh never changed and will never change forever including his time. Since times bring changes.

Thus, the Jesus who has seen by Moses is the same Jesus who has seen by Apostle Paul and all other witnesses and although they saw this Jesus at different times in our time. They all see Him as He is that never change at ‘one time’ which is Christ’s time that never changed because it never moved which they called ‘today’.[/indent]

[Giolla]

[quote name='reyb' post='1730250' date='Dec 17 2008, 08:33 AM'][indent]In short, there are two historical Jesus or let us say the same Jesus but come in this world many times. Both of these analyses are wrong. It is written in Heb 13:7-8 [color="#FF0000"]Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.[/color] Therefore, anything and everything about this Christ and his coming in the flesh never changed and will never change forever including his time. Since times bring changes.

Thus, the Jesus who has seen by Moses is the same Jesus who has seen by Apostle Paul and all other witnesses and although they saw this Jesus at different times in our time. They all see Him as He is that never change at ‘one time’ which is Christ’s time that never changed because it never moved which they called ‘today’.[/indent][/quote]

Hold up. When did Moses see Jesus?

[Galloglasses' Alt]

The Transfiguration, right? Or wait.

[Giolla]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1730341' date='Dec 17 2008, 01:10 PM']The Transfiguration, right? Or wait.[/quote]

I'm thinking he's referring to the OT not NT