mortify Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [b]The U.S. Catholic Church Is Sinking Fast [/b] The New Oxford Review June 2007 [quote]The March 9th National Catholic Reporter (NCR) reported on two recent sociological surveys of Catholics. One survey, conducted by Vincent Bolduc at St. Michael's College in Colchester, Vermont, collected data on more than 1,600 students at five Catholic colleges. According to NCR, "Bolduc said young Catholic students he studied are steeped in a national culture that often regards the Catholic sexual prohibitions against premarital sex, artificial birth control, abortion, divorce, women priests and homosexual behavior as anachronistic." These are the future Catholics. The other survey (the full report is in NCR, Sept. 30, 2005) was conducted by William V. D'Antonio, James Davidson, Dean Hoge, and Mary Gauthier. They found that, among highly committed Catholics, 62 percent support priestesses. In part, this is a longitudinal study of pre-Vatican II Catholics (ages 65 and older), Vatican II Catholics (ages 45-64), post-Vatican II Catholics (ages 26-44), and Millennial Catholics (ages 18-25). Those Catholics were asked to respond to this statement: "[You]can be a good Catholic without attending Mass every week." Agree: Pre-Vatican II Catholics, 69 percent; post-Vatican II Catholics, 76 percent; Millennials, 95 percent. (We will leave the Vatican II Catholics aside.) "Individuals [as opposed to the Church hierarchy] have final say on abortion." Agree: Pre-Vatican II Catholics, 31 percent; post-Vatican II Catholics, 44 percent; Millennials, 77 percent. "[You] can be a good Catholic without obeying the church's opposition to abortion." Agree: Pre-Vatican II Catholics, 44 percent; post-Vatican II Catholics, 59 percent; Millennials, 89 percent. "Catholicism contains a greater share of truth than other religions do." Agree: Pre-Vatican II Catholics, 61 percent; Millennials, 44 percent. (No data on post-Vatican II Catholics given.) However, in the Bolduc survey, among college Millennials, only 19 percent agree. These college Millennials will make up the leading tier of future Catholics. We are saddened to say that things are just not working in the U.S., and Europe is worse. No springtime here. Actually, the forecast calls for an extended winter.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 hopefully it'll come back and be better then ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Red flag 1.) National Catholic Reporter. Red flag 2.) Vermont. I'm just sayin'. Even if it were true for the time being, the law of nature shows that Cafeteria Catholics are just going to contracept themselves to near extinction anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 Friends, I also hope everything goes for the better, and perhaps we have the consolation that liberalism is self defeating, but we have to deal with the fact that we are shrinking. More of us cross over to the other side than the other side coming to us, and those that do don't just leave, they often want their views to become Magesterial teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathoholic_anonymous Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='mortify' post='1294014' date='Jun 13 2007, 03:14 AM']Friends, I also hope everything goes for the better, and perhaps we have the consolation that liberalism is self defeating, but we have to deal with the fact that we are shrinking.[/quote] "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. The gates of hell shall not prevail against it." He will take care of us. He promised. This is not an excuse for laxity, obviously, but so long as we are doing our best to be faithful to Jesus in prayer and in action I don't see that we should get unduly worried by the cafeteria contingent. During Lent I forced myself to abstain from debates on 'liberal' Catholic discussion boards. The sheer number of dissenting people who genuinely believed that they were Catholic frightened me. I was getting increasingly worried about the quality of my apologetics. In short, I had made myself the centre of the problem. I had tried to nudge Jesus aside. He used my fast to remind me that He is the one at the head of this Church and that He will stay there for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Think about Arianism. The Barque of Peter is still upright and sailing for home. Moral: Better catechesis is required. That's not news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 That's all true stuff. I like your witness, Cathoholic. Canada is the same way. Going down hill. I guess there will be pruning of the Church. It will grow back better than ever though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='mortify' post='1294014' date='Jun 12 2007, 09:14 PM']Friends, I also hope everything goes for the better, and perhaps we have the consolation that liberalism is self defeating, but we have to deal with the fact that we are shrinking. More of us cross over to the other side than the other side coming to us, and those that do don't just leave, they often want their views to become Magesterial teaching.[/quote] i'd like to suggest a different opinion. those of us (i'm a teen) who ARE in line with catholic teaching are in the midst of a great renewal. i've seen so much fervor devotion and love for the church in young people that i am shocked and amazed. young people today really love their church and i believe that the us catholic church is not on a decline. perhaps the older population? *shrugs* but i am a youth and i havent seen a decline...i HAVE seen many people who disagree with the church and many of them leave the church but there are many more of us who love the church and the future of the church is not something that i am too worried about. excited would be a much better word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 While things may be grim in many ways, I for one do not believe that "liberal Catholicism"is the future of the Church. I know quite a few young (and orthodox) converts to the Faith, and those young people most actively involved in the Church are often orthodox. Yes, there is a lot of catechizing to be done, but let's not wallow about in despair. And I would not waste time reading either the National Catholic Reporter (liberal dissenting trash) nor the New Oxford Review (slanderous "conservative" trash, wallowing in scandal and despair). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiyoung Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1293982' date='Jun 12 2007, 08:53 PM']Red flag 1.) National Catholic Reporter. Red flag 2.) Vermont. I'm just sayin'. Even if it were true for the time being, the law of nature shows that Cafeteria Catholics are just going to contracept themselves to near extinction anyway.[/quote] That was definitely my first thought when I read the first couple of lines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1294049' date='Jun 12 2007, 10:47 PM']That's all true stuff. I like your witness, Cathoholic. Canada is the same way. Going down hill. I guess there will be pruning of the Church. It will grow back better than ever though.[/quote] Agreed! We have many reasons to be optimistic. I think that in the not too distant future (perhaps 1-2 generations) the cafeteria Catholic will become a thing of the past. In my opinion, the divide between being a person of Faith and an agnostic/atheist is growing. I think that people who have no real devotion to the Faith will ultimately drop any associations that they might have with the Church. Perhaps it is due to the resurgence of orthodoxy, but whatever the reason may be, I have a hard time imagining cafeteria Catholics remaining in an increasingly orthodox Roman Catholic Church. Fewer Clergy preaching about "using your conscience when it comes to contraception", the potential release of the Motu Proprio and its possible effects on liturgical celebration, Pope's like B16, orthodox material on Church teaching, legitimate Catholic Universities like S.T.A. & Ave Maria and............. PHATMASS!!! are all very good signs for the future of the Church. On another note, what an exciting time this is to be Catholic, the Lord needs workers!! He must have very big plans for us if he appointed us for this challenging time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 The questions are worded in a way to encourage bias. "[You]can be a good Catholic without attending Mass every week." Well DUH, of course you can. If I'm sick and can't get out of bed, or if my car breaks down on the way to evening mass, I didn't attend mass every week but I'm still a good Catholic. If I miss mass and then am in confession the next week, I'm still a good Catholic. The correct wording would have been, "Do you agree with the church's teaching of attending mass every week." Secondly, if it was up to me, we'd DRAMATICALLY drop in numbers, with everyone who doesn't agree with church teaching leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydigit Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 red flag 3.) "highly committed Catholics" "3 out of 4 dentists choose Crest." prune prune prune. maybe i'm just young, but i sense a strong renewal brewing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='dUSt' post='1294361' date='Jun 13 2007, 01:33 AM']The questions are worded in a way to encourage bias. "[You]can be a good Catholic without attending Mass every week." Well DUH, of course you can. If I'm sick and can't get out of bed, or if my car breaks down on the way to evening mass, I didn't attend mass every week but I'm still a good Catholic. If I miss mass and then am in confession the next week, I'm still a good Catholic. The correct wording would have been, "Do you agree with the church's teaching of attending mass every week."[/quote] EXACTLY! I don't mean to sound ambivalent about the state of the church in America, but given who conducted this survey, and where this survey is done makes it suspect. The MSM and the National Catholic Reporter are absolute hogwash to be taken with more than just a grain of salt -- more like a cow's salt lick block. [img]http://www.blinman.com/salt_lick_s.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starets Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I would have to concur with the people who have pointed out sampling errors and experimenter bias in this survey. I see a lot of hope for the future of the Church. Thanks to sites like this and others, I hae come across many tweenaged (between 12 and 30) catholics with a great love of the Church and her teachings, and a great desire to know more and draw other people closer. I am told there was a bit of a demographic dip after the First Vatican Council as well. But indeed the greatest sign of hope is that the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now