Ora et Labora Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 (edited) double post. Edited June 13, 2007 by Ora et Labora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='kafka' post='1293805' date='Jun 12 2007, 03:20 PM']I think its pretty much self explanatory. Where have you been the last 10 years?[/quote] I think Kafka was just saying, these past ten years there have been many problems with homosexual priests. But that should NOT exclude everyone, I think. [quote name='Margaret Clare' post='1294013' date='Jun 12 2007, 09:14 PM']I'm in agreement with Veritas here. This situation must be approached with great caution. The 80% figure also comes immediately to mind. Yes, this was something stated by the USCCB. I would read all the Church has said on this, pray a lot, and seek advice from a spiritual director. Also, remember that there are certainly many ways in which to serve the Church, besides priestly or religious orders. There are many forms of single consecrated life also. While this is true, the issue is definitely different with someone with a same-sex attraction because of the fact that generally [u]religious sisters live among religious sisters[/u], and [u]brothers/priests among brothers/priests[/u]. That's what makes the situation so problematical. The welfare of other people and the religious community overall must very much be taken into account also.[/quote] Thanks, Margaret Clare. Loved reading your post, and I agree. [quote name='ofpheritup' post='1294046' date='Jun 12 2007, 09:46 PM']Discernment is a "form" of debating. This man is asking questions and seeking help figuring out things in his life. If that qualifies as a debate then Vocation Station needs to be moved. The whole purpose (I thought) was to respond to questions. I'm trying to respond, you don't have to agree with me but I have the right to be heard.....HERE ON VOCATION STATION. So does Ian. One question I have regarding people's sexual practices. How can ANYONE prove that they are celibate, no matter what their preference? It is a tough thing to prove. We pretty much have to take a person's word for it. I don't like what I'm seeing, not just here but overall within the Catholic Church when it comes to criteria for people considering the Priesthood or Religious Life. It seems that people are being told if you aren't young, healthy, or oh heaven forbid...perfect we don't want you. Is this "the Church" or is it a Country Club?"[/quote] Veritas is right, discernment is definitely not debating, it is something wholly spiritual. Is God debating on what vocation each of us should have? Does He need to? No! He knows what we are called to do, and if we pray and search, (with God's grace!) we will follow His will. Where does debate go into any of this? The Church isn't looking for perfect men...that's common sense, because, none of us are perfect. I am glad that the Church cares about who becomes our spiritual shepherds on earth! The men whom they choose have great responsibilities with the flock who is trusted in their care. If they didn't take great care in choosing priests, something would be wrong. [quote name='Veritas' post='1294148' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:01 PM']+ No. Discernment isn't a form of debating, it is a form of right thinking and prudence -it is a matter of weighing a lot of different things in discerning the Holy Spirit. I do believe what is being referred to, is that if we are going to discuss the viability of homosexuals to enter the seminary or priesthood, that should go somewhere else. Because, as the document above clearly states, it has already been decided by the Church. This IS a place to share information, not to debate what is right or wrong. Your "right" is totally up to dUSt and the guidelines he has created. This is a monarchy. Finally, the Church realizes that no one is perfect. However, the priesthood is an exceptionally demanding calling. And, because of the position of authority, power, and influence it has, those men need to be exceptionally healthy in mind and reasonably healthy in body for the sake of their own salvation and those that they serve. It can seem difficult to understand at first, but in essence it really is the most compassionate and prudent path for the men themselves and the community. God established the Church as our guide -when we are inclined to differ in our opinion, we must seek to correct ourselves.[/quote] Yes!! Thank you Veritas. Ianny, I will pray for you. That is the best thing we on PM can do! I believe also that this situation should be treated with very great care...but, I am not wise enough to give any good advise. I will just say my prayers are with you, and following the Vatican's teachings on this subject is the best advise you can get! God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='Ora et Labora' post='1294407' date='Jun 13 2007, 08:42 AM']I think Kafka was just saying, these past ten years there have been many problems with homosexual priests. But that should NOT exclude everyone, I think.[/quote] I was. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farglefeezlebut Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 It will be harder for someone in that situation to enter religious life. That does not mean it will be impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='alicemary' post='1294359' date='Jun 13 2007, 01:22 AM']I would give ANYTHING to have a priest in my parish, I could care less if he was gay, straight, green, or walked on his hands. There are so few priests in southwest virginia that we would welcome with open arms a priest here. My pastor has 3 parishes. And who are we to judge? There are plenty of homosexual priests in the ranks now. You are what you are. If you can control your sexual urges, be it for same sex or different sex, that is what is important. And to DARE to equate gays and pedophiles is ridiculous and faulty thinking. They are not the same.[/quote] + No one is equating. Please read carefully. "Who are we to judge"? Well, the Church established by Christ upon the Rock of Peter is the one to judge. They have the power, authority, right and responsibility to do judge and they have done so. The real question is: Who are we to think we know better than Christ? The Church speaks for Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 (edited) [quote name='ofpheritup' post='1294386' date='Jun 13 2007, 06:41 AM']Okay, this is scary...."right thinking" and who determines that? You. I don't think so. The Holy Spirit does help, to a point. You have to be willing to listen. Yes, I believe that discernment is a form of debating. It all depends on what your personal viewpoint of debate is. You are right this is a place to share information. No one here is "debating" as you perceive it. Why do you feel threatened? Ian asked a question, he is seeking information. We have responded. I don't know what posts you've been reading. There is a group I believe called COURAGE that men and women from it are joining the religious life. Oh well. It isn't that I believe Ian is right or wrong. I don't know, I'm not his judge. The man asked "a simple question." The reason I am responding as I am is because I don't like bullies. Never have, never will. The purpose of VS it to have a (safe) place that people can come and ask, without feeling threatened. I am not content to give "white bread" answers to keep the majority happy. I am a teacher, if someone asks me a question I am answer them. I am going to say one last thing Veritas and you can choose to take it how you will. Do your self a favor and do not join religious life, at least not with the attitude you seem to have today. This is my thinking and my life experience and I hope it will help you. I was raised in a LARGE family, 8 kids, and Mom and Dad. I joined a religious community at the age of 15 and left it. The community was hypocritical and I asked the "wrong" questions. Or so I was told. At 18 I joined the Army. My point is this....people are going to disagree with you, they have that right (funny isn't it.) Not everyone who sees you coming is going to be happy about it, and that includes religious life. The people around you are going to express themselves and not care what you think about it. They shouldn't have to, trust me they are not going to. Religious life is a "very small world" and all of the personalities in the world are "on display." How are you going to deal with people that disagree with you? They have as much right to express their opinion as you. Hopefully you will learn to deal a little more charitably (maturely) with them then you have with this. Only time will tell. [/quote] + Wow. I haven't said anything uncharitable. You clearly are very upset and are making things personal: This isn't the place, or the way. This question was asked in a general way, and a general answer was given. No one is being attacked. I am simply stating what the Church does. I am sorry if you don't like it, but that has nothing to do with me. Phatmass is a place that represents and is deferential to the Church. "right thinking" is a properly formed conscience, which is inline with Church teaching. Again, it has nothing to do with me and I have made no such suggestion. Your personal opinions on my vocation are premature and uninfomed. Furthermore, it was completely inappropriate and unkind to air them publicly. They don't require a response. However, I hold no ill will towards you and am happy to discuss the matter at hand, which is the topic of this thread. God Bless you. Edited June 13, 2007 by Veritas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJames Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give an explanation to everyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that be the will of God, than for doing evil. For Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. 1 Peter 3:15-18 -------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='ofpheritup' post='1294386' date='Jun 13 2007, 07:41 AM']Okay, this is scary...."right thinking" and who determines that? You. I don't think so. The Holy Spirit does help, to a point. You have to be willing to listen. Yes, I believe that discernment is a form of debating. It all depends on what your personal viewpoint of debate is. You are right this is a place to share information. No one here is "debating" as you perceive it. Why do you feel threatened? Ian asked a question, he is seeking information. We have responded. I don't know what posts you've been reading. There is a group I believe called COURAGE that men and women from it are joining the religious life. Oh well. It isn't that I believe Ian is right or wrong. I don't know, I'm not his judge. The man asked "a simple question." The reason I am responding as I am is because I don't like bullies. Never have, never will. The purpose of VS it to have a (safe) place that people can come and ask, without feeling threatened. I am not content to give "white bread" answers to keep the majority happy. I am a teacher, if someone asks me a question I am answer them. I am going to say one last thing Veritas and you can choose to take it how you will. Do your self a favor and do not join religious life, at least not with the attitude you seem to have today. This is my thinking and my life experience and I hope it will help you. I was raised in a LARGE family, 8 kids, and Mom and Dad. I joined a religious community at the age of 15 and left it. The community was hypocritical and I asked the "wrong" questions. Or so I was told. At 18 I joined the Army. My point is this....people are going to disagree with you, they have that right (funny isn't it.) Not everyone who sees you coming is going to be happy about it, and that includes religious life. The people around you are going to express themselves and not care what you think about it. They shouldn't have to, trust me they are not going to. Religious life is a "very small world" and all of the personalities in the world are "on display." How are you going to deal with people that disagree with you? They have as much right to express their opinion as you. Hopefully you will learn to deal a little more charitably (maturely) with them then you have with this. Only time will tell. [/quote] Veritas simply answered a question. Its not personal, so kindly stop trying to make it so. Respond to her points, and cut the personal attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 [quote name='ofpheritup' post='1294386' date='Jun 13 2007, 04:41 AM']The reason I am responding as I am is because I don't like bullies. Never have, never will. The purpose of VS it to have a (safe) place that people can come and ask, without feeling threatened.[/quote] where is anyone being a bully? the only bully i see is you, inferring things into people's posts that were never there. veritas responded to ianny with documentation from the Vatican (or was it the USCCB? ) documentation has been provided. thread closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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