SJP Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share Posted June 17, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1297408' date='Jun 17 2007, 06:32 PM']The main problem with Rome as well as apostate Protestantism/evangelicalism is Dominionism. Marriage of church and state.[/quote] Well Budge, what political system would you propose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joey-O Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1297408' date='Jun 17 2007, 05:32 PM']The main problem with Rome as well as apostate Protestantism/evangelicalism is Dominionism. Marriage of church and state.[/quote] People who divorce faith and the church from government, knowingly or unknowingly advocate for the subjegation of faith and the disunity of the human person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 [quote] Well Budge, what political system would you propose?[/quote]The one America had for some time....when the Constitution was still adhered to. [quote] People who divorce faith and the church from government, knowingly or unknowingly advocate for the subjegation of faith and the disunity of the human person.[/quote] When church marries government it ALWAYS corrupts the church. I point to all the evangelicals who were suckered into thinking the Republican party was "God's" party not just things to do with Catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I think Joey's point is a good one. The person cannot be so neatly divded between the political self and the spiritual self. The solution to such a division of man doesn't always mean a theocracy, but only political arrangements that go beyond merely some feeble notion of "toleration." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 When church and state become totally emeshed, there is no more accountablitiy. For a truly free society, the church should not merely be an ARM of the state. or vice versa. Theocracies always fail. Dominionists look to this world and ITS POWER. It is interesting how RECONSTRUSTIONIST TYPES AND CATHOLICS look more to THIS WORLD, then the real kingdom of Jesus Christ. "MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD" Does that ring a bell? I think that one is in the catholic BIble too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Reconstructionist types? And one can look to this world without sacrificing the next. We are called to be stewards of creation, not self-resigned nihilists who say "to hell with it all" like a lot fundamentalists do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Budge' post='1298604' date='Jun 19 2007, 06:42 PM']When church and state become totally emeshed, there is no more accountablitiy. For a truly free society, the church should not merely be an ARM of the state. or vice versa. Theocracies always fail. Dominionists look to this world and ITS POWER. It is interesting how RECONSTRUSTIONIST TYPES AND CATHOLICS look more to THIS WORLD, then the real kingdom of Jesus Christ. "MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD" Does that ring a bell? I think that one is in the catholic BIble too.[/quote] While I would agree that theocracies are certainly undesirable, I don't think it's fair to assume that a government which is guided by basic morality--"thou shalt not kill" for instance-- will become an "arm" of the Church. I believe in democracy, a system which says that we have can make [i]choices[/i]; however, I think that it is the job of the government to restrict activities that are morally-detrimental to society. Abortion, pornography and euthanasia come to mind. As for your usual attack on the Catholic Church, pish-posh, Budge. I've realized that the reason you are so angry all the time is because your spirit is rebelling within you while you spew-out your incomplete, intellectually-arrested theology. Come back home, my sister. Edited June 20, 2007 by kujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Dunno what the Church should function in. Prolly a non hereditary monarchy.. I DO know what system we have in the world today, by and large. Seems to me to not be democracy, oligarchy, or thocracy. Everywhere I look seems to be evidence that we live in an idiocracy.... tired...going to bed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 [quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1298823' date='Jun 20 2007, 02:29 AM']Dunno what the Church should function in. Prolly a non hereditary monarchy.. I DO know what system we have in the world today, by and large. Seems to me to not be democracy, oligarchy, or thocracy. Everywhere I look seems to be evidence that we live in an idiocracy.... tired...going to bed now.[/quote] While I appreciate your humor, it doesn't really add to the debate as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 A Christian should be working on preaching the gospel, letting the Holy Spirit change hearts not giving in to the temptation to use theocracies which are always corrupt, and force of law to FORCE "good" behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 A Christian should be working on preaching the gospel, letting the Holy Spirit change hearts not giving in to the temptation to use theocracies which are always corrupt, and force of law to FORCE "moral" behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1298868' date='Jun 20 2007, 10:20 AM']A Christian should be working on preaching the gospel, letting the Holy Spirit change hearts not giving in to the temptation to use theocracies which are always corrupt, and force of law to FORCE "moral" behavior.[/quote] Again, Budge, no one is advocating for a theocracy. But are you trying to say that politicians shouldn't be guided by the Holy Spirit as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joey-O Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1298604' date='Jun 19 2007, 05:42 PM']When church and state become totally emeshed, there is no more accountablitiy. For a truly free society, the church should not merely be an ARM of the state. or vice versa. Theocracies always fail. Dominionists look to this world and ITS POWER. It is interesting how RECONSTRUSTIONIST TYPES AND CATHOLICS look more to THIS WORLD, then the real kingdom of Jesus Christ. "MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD" Does that ring a bell? I think that one is in the catholic BIble too.[/quote] The problem with your rhetoric is that it is all or nothing. The church and the state can work cooperatively without "totally emesh"ing themselves together. I don't think theocracies are viable, but I would point out that Israel was a theocracy then a theocratic monarchy. If you feel hurt by Republicans, then stop voting Republican. Don't make ridiculous statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodChaser Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 [quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1298823' date='Jun 20 2007, 12:29 AM']Dunno what the Church should function in. Prolly a non hereditary monarchy.. I DO know what system we have in the world today, by and large. Seems to me to not be democracy, oligarchy, or thocracy. Everywhere I look seems to be evidence that we live in an idiocracy.... tired...going to bed now.[/quote] I've watched that movie as well. It was hilarious as all heck. I loved it. But it is kinda unrealistic, it will about 5 years before we see stuff like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodChaser Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 [quote name='kujo' post='1298886' date='Jun 20 2007, 08:50 AM']Again, Budge, no one is advocating for a theocracy. But are you trying to say that politicians shouldn't be guided by the Holy Spirit as well?[/quote] I have to agree with budge there Kujo. Our Politicians aren't lead by the holy spirit, but a spirit of something very, very dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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