I Am Despairing

[journeyman]

Ongoing topic of discussion . . . socializing in the sanctuary instead of the in the commons area
During Lent we specifically announced the five minutes before Mass were for prayer . . . and glared at those who weren't listening. Eight weeks later, we're back to talking louder (why would piano and strings be playing a hymn-like instrumental before Mass . . . it couldn't possibly be an effort to stimulate my prayer life . . . .could it?)

I try real hard to be grateful for those who come to Mass, and even harder not to think that they dressed for what they planned to do after Mass, rather than for Mass . . . what's my alternative, that they just go straight there and skip Mass? Not a good choice. And there are some really good folks who just don't dress the way I do.

I haven't quite worked up the same level of charity for the "drive through" parishioners

Keep praying Li'l Red (and for Li'l Red, and all the other ministers) . . . You affect more than you know.
Preach always . . . use words when you have to.

Edited June 14, 2007 by journeyman

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1292851' date='Jun 11 2007, 11:49 AM']I am very upset. A little background first:

Since my youth group is raising money to get to NCYC, a lot of weekends I am at every Mass. I sit at my table keeping eye on our 'wares' and listen to Mass and watch what's going on. Every weekend and every Mass I get increasingly bitter.

Why you ask? I'll tell you. I am bitter about the casual dress of people going to Mass (flip flops, shorts, t-shirts with offensive graphics, mini mini-skirts, halter tops, ratty jeans, sweats, hair that looks like someone just rolled out of bed, etc etc etc). I am bitter about people coming in late (anywhere from right at the reading of the Gospel to right at the Eucharistic prayer). I am bitter about people leaving early, chewing Jesus like he's some kind of snack while they are walking out the door. I am bitter about the parents who are such poor examples for their children. I am bitter about the noise of people talking in the sanctuary before and after Mass, like they are in a social hall. I am bitter about the fact that if our priest (who has been here for 10 years) had started catechizing people when he got here, we wouldn't be in such a state! I am bitter about the fact that people walk into Mass chewing gum. I am bitter about the fact that it doesn't seem like my priest cares about the majority of what I've listed here, as long as we talk about 'community' and 'the body of Christ'. I am bitter that on the feast of Corpus Christi (of course we say 'The Body and Blood of Christ' because heaven forbid anyone learn a little bit of Latin!!) the priest's homily was about how we are all the body of Christ (what drivel! we could hear about that at any other Sunday Mass - how about a homily about the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist!). I am bitter that the homilies we hear don't really educate us about things that matter! I am bitter that 'community' and being a 'welcoming community' is more important than the sacraments and offering the sacraments.

I don't know what to do. I told myself that this summer I wasn't going to complain if I couldn't do something about whatever I'm complaining about, but I don't know what to do. I don't know how to affect change. (Please remember that I'm a parish staff member; me and another staff member are conservative in that we just want things done the way they should be and everyone else is very liberal.) Please pray for me and my parish. We need it badly.

p.s. the first person to say something like "I'm glad I attend 'such and such' church and we don't have these problems" - or says something to the effect of "This is what you get with Vatican II" gets their post deleted.[/quote]
I don't have the time or patience to read through all of the other responses to this (though I did skim most) but here's how I see all of that: I agree with you most of the time on most things. In this case, however, I have to point out just a few small things. Someone walking in late to Mass does not necessarily mean that they intend to be late or that they are late out of a lack of respect. He or she may have had a sick child or been having problems with a spouse. You never know where they were coming from. Any number of things could have happened to make them late. I'm not saying we should sit back and let people slide. If we care for the souls of our brothers and sisters in Christ we will challenge them. We will charitably coax them into doing what we all know is good and right. But we cannot judge each soul that walks through those doors.

About the clothing: We don't know where people are coming from. Some people you may know. Some people may be in the wrong. But to lump everyone into one large group, well, I don't think it's right. I don't think it's fair. Some people really don't have the clothes to dress up. Some people DON'T own nice things. Perhaps they do own an outfit or two that is nice that they could wear to church each week, but what if they are embarassed by that? What if it embarasses them to not have more things to wear? Does it really matter? No. But it affects them and if its distracting them at Mass, I'd rather they wear jeans and a pull-over. Again, we don't know individual situations.

About 'Body and Blood of Christ Sunday': Corpus Christi, from what I've learned, translates "Body of Christ". Now, from what I have heard, most parishes are calling it "Body and Blood of Christ Sunday". It didn't come about just because the majority didn't want to "learn a little Latin", however. And I think it is great that we have started including the Blood in our celebration. Surely it was never left out in previous years but the emphasis is there now and I think it is good. It is the emphasis on the fact that they are both Christ. Both species are Christ and both are important. It is not just the Body but also the Blood. So while your traditional leanings may have you frustrated over something that seems 'cheesey', it is not actually incorrect. I do believe that this will be more effective for most people. I believe that this small change will have some effect (however small) in relating that both the Body and Blood are in fact JESUS.

I'm sorry that you're so frustrated with things that happen in your parish. I'm sure you know that most parishes struggle with these issues, no matter the size. I will definitely keep all in my prayers.

[Maggyie]

That's a good point Hughey! Although I don't know any Catholics who think that only the Body is Jesus What would lead somebody to think that? What could the thought process be? The Host is Jesus but the wine is just to wash Him down with?

I don't mind that they call it the Feast of the Body and Blood, but the reason I like when people call it Corpus Christi is that it reminds me of the city in Texas. How cool would that be to live in a city named after the Sacrament?

There are some things in my parish that really bother me, for instance, lay people opening and closing the tabernacle and taking the ciborium out and putting it back in. At the same time I know there are many people trying to improve things, and this effort has helped send about nine young men to the seminary from our parish in the last five years.

[Socrates]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1294838' date='Jun 13 2007, 08:58 PM']About the clothing: We don't know where people are coming from. Some people you may know. Some people may be in the wrong. But to lump everyone into one large group, well, I don't think it's right. I don't think it's fair. Some people really don't have the clothes to dress up. Some people DON'T own nice things. Perhaps they do own an outfit or two that is nice that they could wear to church each week, but what if they are embarassed by that? What if it embarasses them to not have more things to wear? Does it really matter? No. But it affects them and if its distracting them at Mass, I'd rather they wear jeans and a pull-over. Again, we don't know individual situations.[/quote]
While you have a point about not being able to judge every individual, I think for the most part, the old line about dressing down for Sunday Mass because "people can't afford nice clothes" is pure bunkum.
I'm sure 99.9% of parishioners at your typical Catholic parish can afford to "dress up" - as in wear shirt/slacks/tie/jacket for men, and dresses/skirts/blouse for women. These clothes need not be expensive - at the very minimum, one can get such items for next to nothing at a thrift shop.
This is not about money and "dressing to impress," but about showing some respect.

Near where I live there is a black church where the congregation all wears nice suits and dresses every Sunday. These people are not coming from the top of the socio-economic ladder.
Many poor churches put to shame rich ones in this area.

Dressing sloppy for church is not really about humility or poverty; the situation is - more often than people too poor to afford dress clothes - parishioners lounging about in their expensive designer t-shirts/jeans/shorts.

Modesty and respect for the sacred are the chief issues here.

Edited June 14, 2007 by Socrates

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1294849' date='Jun 13 2007, 09:31 PM']That's a good point Hughey! Although I don't know any Catholics who think that only the Body is Jesus What would lead somebody to think that? What could the thought process be? The Host is Jesus but the wine is just to wash Him down with? [/quote]
I'm not necessarily saying that people think the Blood is any less Jesus so much as I am saying that people might not THINK about it as much. We have so much emphasis on the Eucharist (what with Eucharistic adoration and all -- not to mention those parishes that do not distribute communion under both species, like mine) that it is not often thought of, I don't think. Not that I am a good example, certainly I am very ignorant in many areas of faith, but I often do not think so much of the Blood as I do of the Body. Why? The examples I mentioned, for starters. Do I know that the Blood is Jesus too? Yes! Absolutely. And when I get to receive both species I am absolutely overjoyed. But on a daily basis, I do not experience the knowledge like some. I receive only the Body 99.9% of the time. And again, I think it really just reinforces the fact that BOTH are Jesus, not simply one or the other.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1294874' date='Jun 13 2007, 09:55 PM']While you have a point about not being able to judge every individual, I think for the most part, the old line about dressing down for Sunday Mass because "people can't afford nice clothes" is pure bunkum.
I'm sure 99.9% of parishioners at your typical Catholic parish can afford to "dress up" - as in wear shirt/slacks/tie/jacket for men, and dresses/skirts/blouse for women. These clothes need not be expensive - at the very minimum, one can get such items for next to nothing at a thrift shop.
This is not about money and "dressing to impress," but about showing some respect.

Near where I live there is a black church where the congregation all wears nice suits and dresses every Sunday. These people are not coming from the top of the socio-economic ladder.
Many poor churches put to shame rich ones in this area.

Dressing sloppy for church is not really about humility or poverty - the situation is - more often than people too poor to afford dress clothes - parishioners lounging about in their expensive designer t-shirts/jeans/shorts.

Modesty and respect for the sacred are the chief issues here.[/quote]
And I see what you're saying. I do. And I realize that this is not the case with everyone and that some ARE at fault. But I still hold that it's not fair to judge anyone based on appearance. We think we know but often we do not. And it can annoy you that people have little reverence for the house of God.. but what good does it do to grumble about it?

I acknowledge that red is looking for change and looking to make it happen. I just think that far too often we focus on things like this rather than the Mass itself. We focus too much on other people and how they are carrying themselves. We focus too much on picking apart what is wrong instead of loving and celebrating our Lord.

I'm not trying to say anything personal here. It's just something I've noticed is quite popular with many people. Too often we focus on the details of it all and lose sight of the meaning. (Are the details important? Of course. But only so far as you can keep the faith and remember why the details are details at all.)

[geetarplayer]

Dear Lil Red,

The Lord said, "Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied."

I am in a similar situation right now (in my home parish and my school parish, actually!) and fortunately there is hope. Why? Luke tells us that nothing is impossible for God. My first piece of advice to you is to [b]have faith![/b] Jesus Christ said that hell would not prevail over the Church, that He would send an Advocate to convict the world! As St. Padre Pio said, "Pray, hope, and don't worry!" Trust in God's will, the saving grace of the Son, and the power of the Holy Spirit.

A big thing you can do is to [b]speak up[/b]. Mind you, you don't have to get up on a soapbox and shout it; you can [b]start small and plant some seeds[/b]. But a city on a hill cannot be hidden. You have a deep desire for true, authentic worship of Christ the King. Share it, sister! Don't let it stay tucked away! Get them to think. Get them to seek His face amidst all the nonsense of today's society. And you can do it in subtle, casual ways, in the little things you say and do. Speak sincerely to the priests at your parish, the teens in your youth group, the music coordinator, your fellow staff members. Just be your own passionate, charitable self. I know you can do it.

Lastly, speak with your 'conservative' friend. Get him or her on board with the fact that your parish needs a gentle reminder of the voice of truth. Let them know that you believe in him or her. [b]Support each other.[/b] When one of you despairs, may the other restore hope. When the apostles went out preaching the gospel, they went two-by-two.

The Lord has big plans for YOU, Lil Red! Christ lives in you and He will lead you and protect you and grant you courage. I will pray for you, and I trust that you will do the same for me as I try to practice what I've preached here!

-Mark

[Lil Red]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1294838' date='Jun 13 2007, 07:58 PM']I don't have the time or patience to read through all of the other responses to this (though I did skim most) but here's how I see all of that: I agree with you most of the time on most things. In this case, however, I have to point out just a few small things. Someone walking in late to Mass does not necessarily mean that they intend to be late or that they are late out of a lack of respect. He or she may have had a sick child or been having problems with a spouse. You never know where they were coming from. Any number of things could have happened to make them late. I'm not saying we should sit back and let people slide. If we care for the souls of our brothers and sisters in Christ we will challenge them. We will charitably coax them into doing what we all know is good and right. But we cannot judge each soul that walks through those doors.[/quote]
No, I do not judge souls and I'm sorry I sound that way. But I can and will judge ACTIONS. Isn't that what people sit here and complain about the bishops? That they judge their actions? Is there a difference between bishops and lay, of course. but when people are casually sauntering in for Mass week after week at the Gospel, I will not excuse such behavior. it is scandalous and when no one has told them it's not okay, it becomes routine. i see the same people late every Sunday. the same people. hell, i have a child and i get to Mass early when i have her with me. just because you have a child doesn't mean that all of a sudden you have an excuse to be late to everything. when you are late to something, you give the impression to the other person that your time is more valuable than theirs, and that it's okay. for example, would you be late to a meeting with your boss? no. because it's your job on the line. why is being late for Mass okay when it's THE BOSS?

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1294838' date='Jun 13 2007, 07:58 PM']About the clothing: We don't know where people are coming from. Some people you may know. Some people may be in the wrong. But to lump everyone into one large group, well, I don't think it's right. I don't think it's fair. Some people really don't have the clothes to dress up. Some people DON'T own nice things. Perhaps they do own an outfit or two that is nice that they could wear to church each week, but what if they are embarassed by that? What if it embarasses them to not have more things to wear? Does it really matter? No. But it affects them and if its distracting them at Mass, I'd rather they wear jeans and a pull-over. Again, we don't know individual situations.[/quote]
[b]i really wish you had read the whole thread because then you would've seen where i said: If you have nice clothes to wear to Mass, you should. If you have the means and wherewithal to wear nice clothes to Mass, you should. [/b]Hughey, we are the most affluent parish in the [s]city[/s] diocese. and you know, i know the poorer people that attend Mass at my parish. (lol, i'm one of them). and they dress nicer (most of them) than the rich folk of the parish.

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1294838' date='Jun 13 2007, 07:58 PM']About 'Body and Blood of Christ Sunday': Corpus Christi, from what I've learned, translates "Body of Christ". Now, from what I have heard, most parishes are calling it "Body and Blood of Christ Sunday". It didn't come about just because the majority didn't want to "learn a little Latin", however. And I think it is great that we have started including the Blood in our celebration. Surely it was never left out in previous years but the emphasis is there now and I think it is good. It is the emphasis on the fact that they are both Christ. Both species are Christ and both are important. It is not just the Body but also the Blood. So while your traditional leanings may have you frustrated over something that seems 'cheesey', it is not actually incorrect. I do believe that this will be more effective for most people. I believe that this small change will have some effect (however small) in relating that both the Body and Blood are in fact JESUS.[/quote]
okay, you're right. to complain about such a thing was petty. i laugh at the 'traditional leanings' part of your post though. i do not consider myself traditional. i just want things done correctly in my parish. not made up, not crossed out (like every instance of God as "Him" is crossed out in the sacramentary). i want a Mass, in English, that is said the way it is supposed to be.

i'm sick and tired of people saying 'well, we can't judge, blah blah blah". you know what? what if we said the same about homosexual relationships? we don't because we know people's souls are in danger. well, people's souls ARE in danger if they are not properly catechized to the importance of Mass!

frankly, hughey, while i agree with some of the points you made, you make me out to be this judgmental person when surely you know better. maybe i do sound judgemental towards people and not their actions. i don't think so. maybe you are bringing some baggage of your own to this thread.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1294929' date='Jun 13 2007, 09:22 PM']I acknowledge that red is looking for change and looking to make it happen. I just think that far too often we focus on things like this rather than the Mass itself. We focus too much on other people and how they are carrying themselves. We focus too much on picking apart what is wrong [b]instead of loving and celebrating our Lord.[/b][/quote]
this is the same liberal argument i see people use to not talk about abortion or the death penalty or stem cell research or anything else that can be inflammatory. "oh don't talk about abortion, let's just love the Lord" "oh, it doesn't matter if the Mass isn't celebrated correctly, as long as we're loving the Lord" that's a slippery slope there, hughey.

[kateri05]

i just wanted to add that this is not red's complaints from looking around DURING the Mass, as in when she is participating. she's just noticing this stuff while she's working at the parish while masses are being said.

at least, thats the impression i got.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1295010' date='Jun 14 2007, 12:46 AM']No, I do not judge souls and I'm sorry I sound that way. But I can and will judge ACTIONS. Isn't that what people sit here and complain about the bishops? That they judge their actions? Is there a difference between bishops and lay, of course. but when people are casually sauntering in for Mass week after week at the Gospel, I will not excuse such behavior. it is scandalous and when no one has told them it's not okay, it becomes routine. i see the same people late every Sunday. the same people. hell, i have a child and i get to Mass early when i have her with me. just because you have a child doesn't mean that all of a sudden you have an excuse to be late to everything. when you are late to something, you give the impression to the other person that your time is more valuable than theirs, and that it's okay. for example, would you be late to a meeting with your boss? no. because it's your job on the line. why is being late for Mass okay when it's THE BOSS?[/quote]
First, excuse my 'liberal' usage of the word souls. I don't mean souls in the sense that one would take it if I said it in that context. My bad. I know you don't judge souls but rather the actions of those around you. Which is good. We would be pitiful creatures if we never condemned sinful behaviors and never spoke out to help our brother be more holy.

And again, I do agree with some of what you're saying. I did mention that you probably DO know some of these people and realize that there is no excuse for them. I did say that some of them [i]may be in the wrong[/i].

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1295010' date='Jun 14 2007, 12:46 AM']for example, would you be late to a meeting with your boss? no. because it's your job on the line. why is being late for Mass okay when it's THE BOSS?[/quote]
I like your example. I do. The only thing that comes to mind though is that if you take this approach, some people will be very hesitant to take you seriously. Some people are stuck in this mindset that God is all-loving (not that He isn't, let me finish) and that that somehow excuses their tardiness to every Mass or something similar. Those people are not going to respond favorably to your comments and is the point not to convert these hearts?

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1295010' date='Jun 14 2007, 12:46 AM'][b]i really wish you had read the whole thread because then you would've seen where i said: If you have nice clothes to wear to Mass, you should. If you have the means and wherewithal to wear nice clothes to Mass, you should. [/b]Hughey, we are the most affluent parish in the [s]city[/s] diocese. and you know, i know the poorer people that attend Mass at my parish. (lol, i'm one of them). and they dress nicer (most of them) than the rich folk of the parish.[/quote]
I apologize for not having the patience to read through it all. All I saw really was a bunch of people saying how horrible it was to walk into church because of all of these uncaring people around them. I was getting annoyed and I was running low on time. That being said, I quoted your post and addressed issues that you mentioned, but not with you in mind specifically the whole time. I've noticed a trend among many to seriously condemn some people. Is that necessarily you? No. Which is why I did mention that I wasn't trying to make anything personal. Really. That was never my intent. I know in my heart that you have the noblest of intentions and I do not question that.

I come from an affluent parish as well so I do understand the issue at hand. I have seen our poor dress in the same skirts and shirts every day for Mass while others come in sporting running shorts and cut up t-shirts. Maybe I'm wrong for this but I do like to balance the condemnation of actions with the acceptance of a person's genuine love of the Lord and eagerness to please Him. And some might say that in that I should see that if someone is so 'eager' to please the Lord, then perhaps they should be dressing better for Mass. And perhaps they right. But I'd like to think that there is more to attending Mass than skirts and ties.

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1295010' date='Jun 14 2007, 12:46 AM']okay, you're right. to complain about such a thing was petty. i laugh at the 'traditional leanings' part of your post though. i do not consider myself traditional. i just want things done correctly in my parish. not made up, not crossed out (like every instance of God as "Him" is crossed out in the sacramentary). i want a Mass, in English, that is said the way it is supposed to be.[/quote]
And I'm so glad. It is good that your parish is blessed with people like you! And my "traditional leanings" comment was only meant to say that in some instances your views (such as requesting a little bit of Latin be learned) may be seen as more traditional. I don't necessarily label myself traditional either because while I love the Pater to be chanted (and fully!) and the Agnus Dei to be done in Latin, I'm not a stickler for no music, all chant, or even a bunch of old "traditional" hymns. I like new age stuff mixed with the beauty of the old Mass. I think it's awesome! So I label my desire for the Pater and Agnus Dei in those formats my "traditional leanings".

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1295010' date='Jun 14 2007, 12:46 AM']i'm sick and tired of people saying 'well, we can't judge, blah blah blah". you know what? what if we said the same about homosexual relationships? we don't because we know people's souls are in danger. well, people's souls ARE in danger if they are not properly catechized to the importance of Mass![/quote]
But in this instance we are not talking about homosexual relationships. We aren't talking about abortion, euthanasia, or artificial birth control. We're talking about CLOTHING! At some point you do have to draw a line and start to balance your need to call people out with their emotional needs as humans. You have to factor in a certain level of pride and approach the situation with a loving heart. Did Jesus condemn the sinners he approached? No. Did he set them on straight paths? Absolutely. All I'm saying is that sometimes I think we are a little too finicky about the small things. I'm not saying these things shouldn't be addressed but rather that they should be addressed in a more pastoral manner.

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1295010' date='Jun 14 2007, 12:46 AM']frankly, hughey, while i agree with some of the points you made, you make me out to be this judgmental person when surely you know better. maybe i do sound judgemental towards people and not their actions. i don't think so. maybe you are bringing some baggage of your own to this thread.[/quote]
I'm not so sure I came off quite as I intended. I didn't mean to throw you under the bus, and clearly I haven't, but I did mean to play the Devil's Advocate, of sorts. I did mean to bring the things that can be lost when talking about issues that get people so heated. I know that it is only because you have a deep respect for the Lord that these things bother you. I would assume the same goes for most on the board. However, it is still necessary for us to keep in mind that the Lord DOES call us to love our neighbors. We must not lose sight of that! I'm not asking that we all forget about the things that must be fixed but simply that we keep our eyes fixed on Love Himself while we go about it. It's very easy to get swept up in anger and frustration and forget that we are speaking of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Sometimes the words that we say -- those words which the Holy Spirit compels us to use and that are quite necessary -- will offend our brother. This, truly, I know. But sometimes, as I have said many times already, we get so passionate about our desire to see good things brought forth to the Lord that we lose sight of bringing hearts and souls to Him for HIM to change.

Is this your case? Probably not. But you're also not the only one reading this thread. Those others who have posted here and many more that have not will read this. I just really feel it's important to balance a need to correct and instruct with our challenge to love our brother as Christ would love him.

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1295012' date='Jun 14 2007, 12:51 AM']this is the same liberal argument i see people use to not talk about abortion or the death penalty or stem cell research or anything else that can be inflammatory. "oh don't talk about abortion, let's just love the Lord" "oh, it doesn't matter if the Mass isn't celebrated correctly, as long as we're loving the Lord" that's a slippery slope there, hughey.[/quote]
I'm glad that you love me enough to call me out on what you believe is a slippery slope. I think I've addressed that issue above, however, so I won't go into that again here. Basically, I don't feel that these issues are of the same level and therefore do not think that my response is completely off the chain.

[quote name='kateri05' post='1295026' date='Jun 14 2007, 01:21 AM']i just wanted to add that this is not red's complaints from looking around DURING the Mass, as in when she is participating. she's just noticing this stuff while she's working at the parish while masses are being said.

at least, thats the impression i got. [/quote]
And you're right! She did say that. But again, not all of this was meant to be personal. I know I mentioned before this post that I didn't mean for it to be directed solely at red but that I noticed this trend among many: to focus on the details of it all and lose sight of the meaning. (And as I also said before: Are the details important? Of course. But only so far as you can keep the faith and remember why the details are details at all.) Red may not look around at Mass and notice all of these things, but some do and some are really hurting themselves because of it! I'm blessed to at least be in the loft during Mass and not have to shuffle over in a pew during the Gospel reading because someone just walked in. That could definitely be distracting! I'm just saying too though that we should remember the other things too: that they are there to love the Lord and that they are loved BY the Lord. If he or she comes in after the Gospel and does not receive communion physically, he or she may receive spiritually and that may be something he or she needs. It may be that after so many weeks (or months or years) of that that he or she will go to confession, be absolved, and then be able to receive. I'm saying you just never know. I'm not saying that it's inappropriate to be concerned for your fellow parishoners. I'm just saying that you have to keep a clear and level head when approaching the situation.

Red did say she wanted to do something about it. I'm just trying to point out that it's best to keep all this in mind when doing that.

[geetarplayer]

Dear Lil Red,

I'd like to amend something to my previous post. When I said start small and plant seeds, I now realize what exactly I meant by that. [b]Start with the youth.[/b] If you are sincere and passionate and make a connection with them, they will listen. If you help them to understand why we must dress well for Mass and make sure to get there early, if you help them to understand that it is for love of the Lord that we do these things, that's a wonderful start. Pope John Paul II always affirmed the youth. When they act, people take notice. I think it will be the same in your parish. Again, have faith! Don't worry about it, don't think about it, don't complain about it, just DO it!

-Mark

[Lil Red]

thank you everyone for your kind responses, prayers and corrections. i take them all to my heart. God bless you all. But I feel this thread as outlived it's usefulness.

[Lil Red]

something i need to mention that might help others.

first of all, i went to daily Mass on Tuesday. The gospel reading hit me particularly hard:

Jesus said to his disciples:
'You are the salt of the earth.
But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned?
It is no longer good for anything
but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
You are the light of the world.
A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden.
Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket;
it is set on a lampstand,
where it gives light to all in the house.
Just so, your light must shine before others,
that they may see your good deeds
and glorify your heavenly Father.'

I just felt the reading was directed right at me - Jesus saying "You Are Salt! Be salt to others, no matter what! Don't hide your light because you are afraid!"

The other thing is this. I was praying the rosary in a group last night and a priest was leading one of the decades. At the fourth mystery (the carrying of the cross) - the priest mentioned Simon of Cyrene helps Jesus carry his cross. And as I was reflecting on that, and thinking of how Simon wasn't really that willing to help Jesus carry his cross, but at the end was transformed by carrying Jesus' cross - I heard Jesus telling me, maybe it was asking me to help him carry his cross, and allow myself to be transformed by the journey. So, I think this is my cross right now and I need to be transformed by it.

I think a lot of this has to do with a study of Pope John Paul II and his encyclicals that we are studying this summer.

God bless.

[Brigid]

lots of replies in this thread...

I just wanted to let Lil Red know that I sympathize completely! Your parish and those like it have my prayers.

I just got back from a youth liturgical conference at an abbey, and we were all told not to wear shorts (especially short shorts!) or flip flops in the chapel and church. guess what lots of people wore? shorts and flip flops.

of course, I can't say that all of them did that intentionally. one night I was wearing shorts and flip flops in the church because I forgot that we were going in there that evening, and I didn't have time to change. It made me sad to think that people would see me and think I was disrespectful and disobedient when really I was just forgetful.

I NEVER wear jeans in church/to mass when I can avoid it. I wore my nice tan pants for a lot of the conference because we were in and out of the chapel all day.

[b]edit[/b]: oops, didn't read your post a few above mine. sorry if you didn't want responses any more.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Brigid

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1296859' date='Jun 16 2007, 04:08 PM']something i need to mention that might help others.

first of all, i went to daily Mass on Tuesday. The gospel reading hit me particularly hard:

Jesus said to his disciples:
'You are the salt of the earth.
But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned?
It is no longer good for anything
but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
You are the light of the world.
A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden.
Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket;
it is set on a lampstand,
where it gives light to all in the house.
Just so, your light must shine before others,
that they may see your good deeds
and glorify your heavenly Father.'

I just felt the reading was directed right at me - Jesus saying "You Are Salt! Be salt to others, no matter what! Don't hide your light because you are afraid!"

The other thing is this. I was praying the rosary in a group last night and a priest was leading one of the decades. At the fourth mystery (the carrying of the cross) - the priest mentioned Simon of Cyrene helps Jesus carry his cross. And as I was reflecting on that, and thinking of how Simon wasn't really that willing to help Jesus carry his cross, but at the end was transformed by carrying Jesus' cross - I heard Jesus telling me, maybe it was asking me to help him carry his cross, and allow myself to be transformed by the journey. So, I think this is my cross right now and I need to be transformed by it.

I think a lot of this has to do with a study of Pope John Paul II and his encyclicals that we are studying this summer.

God bless.[/quote]
Thanks for sharing ...