"...traditions That You Were Taught...."

[kenrockthefirst]

I was reading 2 Thessalonians last night, and ran across this verse:

"Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours." (2 Thess. 2:15)

What I infer from this is that St. Paul taught things, i.e. "traditions," that are not necessarily extant in the New Testament, especially given that some of those teachings were oral. Thoughts?

[Starets]

exactly. What's curious is that apparently the NIV translates the Greek word behind "traditions" there as "Teachings" and does so whenever that word is used in a positive context., If it is in a negative context then it is translated as "traditions". Or so I am told. Can anyone confirm that? I barely know the names of the letters in the greek alphabet!

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Staretz' post='1290189' date='Jun 7 2007, 03:38 PM']exactly. What's curious is that apparently the NIV translates the Greek word behind "traditions" there as "Teachings" and does so whenever that word is used in a positive context., If it is in a negative context then it is translated as "traditions". Or so I am told. Can anyone confirm that? I barely know the names of the letters in the greek alphabet![/quote]

Interesting. I don't know Greek, so I just did a comparison between the NIV and a very literal translation, and there did seem to be a difference. I only looked in the NT, but there were a few examples, like 1 Cor 11:2. I'd like to hear from someone who knows Greek, though.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Staretz' post='1290189' date='Jun 7 2007, 09:38 AM']exactly. What's curious is that apparently the NIV translates the Greek word behind "traditions" there as "Teachings" and does so whenever that word is used in a positive context., If it is in a negative context then it is translated as "traditions". Or so I am told. Can anyone confirm that? I barely know the names of the letters in the greek alphabet![/quote]

I originally ran across this scripture in the RSV translation. The text quoted in my original post is from the USCCB site, which uses the NAB. Interestingly, the RSV uses the phrase "word of mouth," while the NAB uses the phrase "oral statement." In both cases, the implication is that St. Paul taught something that isn't necessarily recorded in the NT but which must be considered authoritative on the basis of his status as an Apostle.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1290282' date='Jun 7 2007, 05:16 PM']I originally ran across this scripture in the RSV translation. The text quoted in my original post is from the USCCB site, which uses the NAB. Interestingly, the RSV uses the phrase "word of mouth," while the NAB uses the phrase "oral statement." In both cases, the implication is that St. Paul taught something that isn't necessarily recorded in the NT but which must be considered authoritative on the basis of his status as an Apostle.[/quote]

True. I hadn't looked at a lot of translations, so I appreciate you finding that.

[kafka]

Are we speaking of Sacred Tradition here as the main fount of Divine Revelation or something else?

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='kafka' post='1290286' date='Jun 7 2007, 11:53 AM']Are we speaking of Sacred Tradition here as the main fount of Divine Revelation or something else?[/quote]

I'm simply suggesting the St. Paul taught things, sometimes orally, that aren't contained in the NT but which are authoritative, which speaks to the larger issue, in my mind, of "tradition," i.e. the Magisterium, vs. sola scriptura.

[Katholikos]

QUOTE
9. Sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards to same goal. Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit. And Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, elightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching, [b]Thus it comes about that the Church does not draw her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Hence, both Scripture ahd Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal feelings of devotion and reverence.

10. Sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture make up a single sacred depoit of the Word of God, which is entrusted in the Church. . . .[/b]

END QUOTE (bold added)

Documents of Vatican II
[i]Dei Verbum[/i]

[kafka]

Also,

Father-Son-Spirit

Sacred Tradition-Sacred Scripture-Sacred Magisterium

Sacred Tradition is the Deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation.
Sacred Scripture is the Words written by God in th history of salvation.

Sacred Scripture proceeds from Sacred Tradition as the Son proceeds from the Father.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1290938' date='Jun 8 2007, 12:23 PM']10. Sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God, which is entrusted in the Church. .[/quote]


[quote name='kafka' post='1290985' date='Jun 8 2007, 01:24 PM']Sacred Scripture proceeds from Sacred Tradition as the Son proceeds from the Father.[/quote]

The first statement suggests two distinct, co-equal things, tradition and scripture, which together comprise the Word of God / Deposit of Faith. The latter suggests that scripture arose from / was informed by tradition. Is there any dichotomy between these two statements?

[kafka]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1291025' date='Jun 8 2007, 03:26 PM']The first statement suggests two distinct, co-equal things, tradition and scripture, which together comprise the Word of God / Deposit of Faith. The latter suggests that scripture arose from / was informed by tradition. Is there any dichotomy between these two statements?[/quote]

I dont think so. Tradition and Scripture is Divine Revelation. Divine Revelation is the Sacred Deposit of Faith. Therefore, Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture constitute one inseparable Sacred Deposit of Faith. And the many truths found in Divine Revelation form one unified whole, which is merely a limited reflection of the ultimate Truth: God.


Everything that the Father is the Son is. Yet the Son proceeds from the Father. Therefore the Father is greater. Without the Father there would be no Son.

Everything that Sacred Tradition is Sacred Scripture is. Yet Sacred Scripture proceeds from Sacred Tradition. As a Deed of God in salvation history, the writing of Sacred Scripture is an act of Sacred Tradition.

Everything found in Sacred Scripture comes from Sacred Tradition, just as everything found in the Son comes from the Father.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Staretz' post='1290189' date='Jun 7 2007, 10:38 AM']exactly. What's curious is that apparently the NIV translates the Greek word behind "traditions" there as "Teachings" and does so whenever that word is used in a positive context., If it is in a negative context then it is translated as "traditions". Or so I am told. Can anyone confirm that? I barely know the names of the letters in the greek alphabet![/quote]

That is true with the Greek.

Kafka...you remind me of St. Bonaventure. He uses "3" of things as often as possible. Be careful, none of these analogies are productive in understanding a proper trinitarian theology.

[kafka]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1291216' date='Jun 9 2007, 12:14 AM']That is true with the Greek.

Kafka...you remind me of St. Bonaventure. He uses "3" of things as often as possible. Be careful, none of these analogies are productive in understanding a proper trinitarian theology.[/quote]

My idea is this. Understand the Trinity and it opens up a deeper understanding of other mysteries of the Faith.