New Direction For Our Proposed Active Orders

[the lords sheep]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1290362' date='Jun 7 2007, 03:18 PM']Some of this widespread passion for habits might be the result of nostalgia for the past and a misguided love of 'small t' tradition rather than anything else. A god who would obsess over his servants' headgear to the exclusion of almost everything else is not the Living God whom I worship.

It might be better to focus on the spirituality and work of these proposed sisters rather than on what they will wear. After all, it is presumably not the design of their habit that God will ask them about at the Judgement.[/quote]

I hope that you do not think that anyone was solely concerned about the new order's habit. It was merely a conversation about what may be... I for one believe that Gemma and the other foundress who are considering reviving the habit are interested in it because of the connection to the spirituality that they are trying to renew. And while I don't necessarily agree with them on this point, I am [i]certain [/i] that the style of the habit is not their sole concern, because if it were, neither would be able to find a spiritual director to take them seriously.

I agree that the Lord will not judge according to what the Sisters (or any Sisters) wear, but rather on whether or not the community was faithful to the Gospel and the Lord's call to serve Him and the Church.

I am sure that you were not trying to come across as harsh, and that it is only a result of some misunderstanding. I thank you, though, for expressing your concern and for reminding us (who can sometimes be a bit habit happy) that religious life is infinitely more than how we clothe our bodies and transform our appearance: it is about how we transform our hearts and the hope that our lives and prayers will transform the world.

In Jesus and Mary,
Lauren

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1290187' date='Jun 7 2007, 09:28 AM']There's a bonnet under the cornette that was worn directly on the head. The cornette was attached to the bonnet by many, many straight pins. We're trying modern-day methods to recreate both.

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]
Velcro or, the little hooks and ....I forget what the thing is called that the hook goes into.

[Gemma]

[quote name='ofpheritup' post='1290499' date='Jun 7 2007, 06:40 PM']Velcro or, the little hooks and ....I forget what the thing is called that the hook goes into.[/quote]

Hook-n-eye?

With all due respect to the "dissenters," I am following True Memory, not Nostalgia. The cornette served a very practical purpose--that of shielding not only the sister, but the person receiving charity, from the sun.

I am also a researcher. In the course of moderating our "religious habit" yahoo group, there has been much discussion on the cornette. A lot of prayer has gone into the CCMMs, and I guess it's just part of the cross to be considered a sentimental whatever blindly running forward with the inspiration, stating we're bringing back the cornette for old times' sake. Such could not be further from the truth.

The Holy Ghost is moving others to assist us. I keep asking Jesus and Mary if this is what they want, and I keep getting supporters. This should be indicating something.

Due to the discussions on the habit list, I am painfully aware of what effort went into the old habits. I have my future sisters' health at the forefront of my priorities. We have modern-day fabrics which can be used in the pre-VatII habit patterns. Just give everything a chance. If we fail, we failed trying to do what we thought was God's will. In the end, it's between me and God, not me and everyone else. If we fail, I will publicly admit my failures; praise God; and continue to discern His will for my life.

Please -- at least be charitable enough to extend the benefit of the doubt. I don't like the "voice" that this thread is taking on, and it seems everytime I open my mouth about our proposed charisms, someone jumps down my throat. Fortunately, this is usually due to just misunderstanding.

I have heard from Ecclesia Dei discerners, saying how grateful they are for the proposed charisms, because there's really nowhere else to go. There's nowhere else for spiritual directors to send their directees. I have 10 aspirants in the queue for the Cloisterites right now. Surely this indicates something?

Blessings,
Gemma

[cathoholic_anonymous]

One of the things I appreciate most about the Vocation Station is that people on here have always given their honest insight whenever I have made a post of my own discernment. Some posters have raised points that I haven't always liked or wanted to think about - points that made me uncomfortable. But although my feathers were ruffled at the time, I was eventually able to appreciate the constructive criticism that was given. They weren't telling me that I shouldn't become a nun at all; they were giving useful (if painful) strategies on the best way to realise my vocation. In the same way, I am not saying that Gemma should scrap all her plans - just that the plans should remain open to modification.

But having read a lot of posts about Cloister Outreach since I came to PM, it's becoming increasingly clear to me that if anyone dares to voice a doubt about [i]any[/i] aspect of this organisation, even if it is only a simple thing such as the use of an unwieldy headpiece, they are immediately accused of being unkind or lacking in faith. Remarks like "I guess it's just part of the cross to be considered a sentimental whatever blindly running forward with the inspiration" make it sound as if the Cloister Outreach workers are persecuted saints and that Cloister Outreach itself is sacrosanct. We discuss the pros and cons of established communities on PM, including their habits - I distinctly remember somebody remarking that the veil for the Franciscan Sisters of the Eucharist is not very practical - but nobody gets upset or offended. It's considered healthy and useful discussion.

[quote]The Holy Ghost is moving others to assist us. I keep asking Jesus and Mary if this is what they want, and I keep getting supporters. This should be indicating something.[/quote]

Gemma, what about all those popular and lively Evangelical churches that have such great faith in the Holy Ghost and regularly appeal to God's will? Certainly, they are doing some good work for God and they have a lot of potential. But are they perfect in every respect? Are they beyond criticism? Are they incapable of making mistakes? Even being Catholic and staunchly loyal to the Holy Father doesn't immunise you against error - even if you [i]have[/i] prayed about everything fervently. I have some great friends at Carmelite monasteries around England, women who spend their days pickled in prayer, but they would be the first to admit that their intense prayer life doesn't stop them from making errors in judgement from time to time.

Again, this doesn't mean that I think Cloister Outreach in its entirity is a fantasy. It does mean that I think you should open yourself up to constructive criticism from time to time, rather than dismissing it as 'part of the cross'. Your vocation may be the stronger for it.

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1290531' date='Jun 7 2007, 05:55 PM']Hook-n-eye?

I am also a researcher. In the course of moderating our "religious habit" yahoo group, there has been much discussion on the cornette.

I keep asking Jesus and Mary if this is what they want, and I keep getting supporters. This should be indicating something.

Just give everything a chance. If we fail, we failed trying to do what we thought was God's will. In the end, it's between me and God, not me and everyone else. If we fail, I will publicly admit my failures; praise God; and continue to discern His will for my life.

Please -- at least be charitable enough to extend the benefit of the doubt. I don't like the "voice" that this thread is taking on, and it seems everytime I open my mouth about our proposed charisms, someone jumps down my throat. Fortunately, this is usually due to just misunderstanding.

I have 10 aspirants in the queue for the Cloisterites right now. Surely this indicates something?

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]

"Hook and eye" I just couldn't think of it. Sounds stupid now. Possible good second choices?

I can't see in any of this where Gemma is not open to suggestions or constructive criticism.
Behind the scenes I have emailed her numerous times, she is quite humble, actually sweet and very open to other's points of view.

I feel alot of the misunderstandings are just to frustrate her with the hope that she would quit.
Not from anyone here but from Satan.

It is obvious from this post that Jesus and Mary are on her side. And isn't that what all of us really need?
If God be for us, who could possibly be so stupid, dumb or dense (I'm paraphrasing here)enough to be against us?

Gemma, "THE TASK AHEAD OF YOU IS NOT AS GREAT AS THE POWER BEHIND YOU".

[Gemma]

[quote name='ofpheritup' post='1290820' date='Jun 8 2007, 11:22 AM']"Hook and eye" I just couldn't think of it. Sounds stupid now. Possible good second choices?

I can't see in any of this where Gemma is not open to suggestions or constructive criticism.
Behind the scenes I have emailed her numerous times, she is quite humble, actually sweet and very open to other's points of view.

I feel alot of the misunderstandings are just to frustrate her with the hope that she would quit.
Not from anyone here but from Satan.

It is obvious from this post that Jesus and Mary are on her side. And isn't that what all of us really need?
If God be for us, who could possibly be so stupid, dumb or dense (I'm paraphrasing here)enough to be against us?

Gemma, "THE TASK AHEAD OF YOU IS NOT AS GREAT AS THE POWER BEHIND YOU".[/quote]

Yes, velcro had crossed my mind, as well as the white plastic pins used to hold nurse's caps together. I had completely forgotten about hook-n-eyes.

I know how desperately the world needs this particular charism. There is much going on behind-the-scenes here at Cloister Outreach, and just because I'm not publicly (aka internet) documenting everything doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Yes, Opher, if God is for us, who can be against us? Several priests have written in saying how they support our work with their prayers.

We're about to have our first Aspirant Gathering for the Cloisterites, and believe me, I WILL post pix on PM!

Again, thanks for the very kind words. They are most appreciated.

Blessings,
Gemma

[chelsea]

I have a quick question...maybe I'm just not understanding...let me know if this has already been answered.

You wont take final vows, but instead take temporary vows once a year?

[Gemma]

[quote name='chelsea' post='1291808' date='Jun 10 2007, 11:33 AM']I have a quick question...maybe I'm just not understanding...let me know if this has already been answered.

You wont take final vows, but instead take temporary vows once a year?[/quote]

As unusual as it is, yes, that's the way the Daughters of Charity did their vows. When the DCs first started in the 1600s, there was no such thing as an active women's religious order. ALL women religious were cloistered. Therefore, the DCs couldn't take solemn perpetual vows because they weren't cloistered. I know it all sounds very strange to our modern-day ears when we have such wonderful active women religious out there in the field, but such was not what St. Vincent de Paul was up against.

In fact, someone just sent me something from ebay which said that yes, the DCs took yearly vows, and if someone wanted to leave after a certain amount of time, they could when their vows expired. Now I can hear others exclaiming, "But that's foundational suicide!"

I look at it like this--if a sister's love for Christ and the apostolate aren't enough to keep her at the convent, nothing else will. It's like two lovers who tell each other, "If your love for me isn't enough to bring you home each night, what's the use of continuing the relationship?"

The Daughters of Charity also didn't have a formal habit-taking ceremony which included dressing up like brides, either. The novices lined up at a closet (I guess it was a closet) and were given their habits without fanfare. More modern-day books and other publications may show the DCs with Brides of Christ sitting in the pews across the aisle from them, but that's not the way it started.

We're still trying to get the timeline down for when they started doing things, but as it stands now, if our bishop or whomever says not to do the vows on a yearly basis, we'll have no choice but to do it the "modern" way.

HTH.

Blessings,
Gemma

[chelsea]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1291894' date='Jun 10 2007, 02:50 PM']As unusual as it is, yes, that's the way the Daughters of Charity did their vows. When the DCs first started in the 1600s, there was no such thing as an active women's religious order. ALL women religious were cloistered. Therefore, the DCs couldn't take solemn perpetual vows because they weren't cloistered. I know it all sounds very strange to our modern-day ears when we have such wonderful active women religious out there in the field, but such was not what St. Vincent de Paul was up against.

In fact, someone just sent me something from ebay which said that yes, the DCs took yearly vows, and if someone wanted to leave after a certain amount of time, they could when their vows expired. Now I can hear others exclaiming, "But that's foundational suicide!"

I look at it like this--if a sister's love for Christ and the apostolate aren't enough to keep her at the convent, nothing else will. It's like two lovers who tell each other, "If your love for me isn't enough to bring you home each night, what's the use of continuing the relationship?"

The Daughters of Charity also didn't have a formal habit-taking ceremony which included dressing up like brides, either. The novices lined up at a closet (I guess it was a closet) and were given their habits without fanfare. More modern-day books and other publications may show the DCs with Brides of Christ sitting in the pews across the aisle from them, but that's not the way it started.

We're still trying to get the timeline down for when they started doing things, but as it stands now, if our bishop or whomever says not to do the vows on a yearly basis, we'll have no choice but to do it the "modern" way.

HTH.

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]


That makes sense i suppose. I guess i've just never heard of it done that way. i was never familiar with the daughters of charity. There is a woman I taught confirmation with who used to be a DC but then left and got married.
I'm very interested in this new order! I'm kind-of-not-really-but-am discerning, and this order is very intriguing.

[Gemma]

[quote name='chelsea' post='1292018' date='Jun 10 2007, 05:03 PM']That makes sense i suppose. I guess i've just never heard of it done that way. i was never familiar with the daughters of charity. There is a woman I taught confirmation with who used to be a DC but then left and got married.
I'm very interested in this new order! I'm kind-of-not-really-but-am discerning, and this order is very intriguing.[/quote]

We can start off-board correspondence and discernment -- if you'd like.

We also have a virtual "come and see" in the form of a yahoo group: Cloister Outreach Foundations. The group won't do many people much good if questions aren't asked!

[url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cloister_outreach_foundations/"]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cloister_outreach_foundations/[/url]

I know of quite a few vocations that developed from those who "weren't even looking." I know one personally who is now in the Carmel of Port Tobacco, MD.

Is your former DC friend willing to talk about her experiences? Cloister Outreach also has a yahoo group for ex-nuns (and ex-friars, for that matter).

Hope to hear from you!

Blessings,
Gemma