carrdero Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 (edited) If it is one thing that Phatmass members have encouraged me to do, it is to pray to God for enlightenment. But what happens when this enlightenment does not match the answers of other religions and with what I have learned from the Bible? What if this personal revelation was so far out in left field from what I have been taught and understand about God? Which of these two takes precedence? In a world filled with many experiences and observations, what does one do when their faith does not match the reality of the the world around them? In the example of modern day revelators who claim to be inspired by God, how does one reconcile the differences of what they have understood from God and the previous writings before them? Should one accept the new claims because they are more recent or should one stay with the biblical writings that they learned and grew up with? If someone claimed to be a revelator for God and after understanding what they had offered, would you believe them or the bible? What would be your reason for this? Edited June 6, 2007 by carrdero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 I applaud you for asking this question. It is a good one that a lot of people ask today. People need to give the answer. The reason Christians claim what we have is true is because Jesus is God. He is an historical figure as well as a biblical figure. This God-man really existed. And it matters that he exists. Now, did he prove that he was God? Yes. His miracles and His own claims add up to His divinity. Others just don't compare to Christ. Not Buddha because he does not claim to be God, not Krishna because he's only known through myth and varying traditions, and so on. I hope that helped with your question a little bit. Sorry if I didn't nail it right down. Not really focused tonight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jckinsman Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 [quote name='carrdero' post='1288961' date='Jun 5 2007, 09:15 PM']If it is one thing that Phatmass members have encouraged me to do, it is to pray to God for enlightenment. But what happens when this enlightenment does not match the answers of other religions and with what I have learned from the Bible? What if this personal revelation was so far out in left field from what I have been taught and understand about God? Which of these two takes precedence? In a world filled with many experiences and observations, what does one do when their faith does not match the reality of the the world around them? In the example of modern day revelators who claim to be inspired by God, how does one reconcile the differences of what they have understood from God and the previous writings before them? Should one accept the new claims because they are more recent or should one stay with the biblical writings that they learned and grew up with? If someone claimed to be a revelator for God and after understanding what they had offered, would you believe them or the bible? What would be your reason for this?[/quote] I would have to say that I would hope that my faith did not "Match" with the world today. The reality of our world around us is that people are still human. Humans have experiances. Humans observe behaviors. How to act,How not to act. People have free will. Free will is the root cause of confusion. I can believe that chair is green, The chair IS blue,but I believe it is green. Sue says its blue, I still think its green,the chair has been blue all it's chair life,yet all I see is a green chair. I can not see blue. Bob says "JC it's a blue chair!" I stare real hard at it for over an hour,it's still green. Mom says the chair is blue,she was the one that bought it and painted it,It's blue! All I see is the color green, am I blind? am I crazy? They are asking me to believe that this green chair is blue! How can I do this Lord? To me it is a green chair. I pray and pray to see what they are seeing,How can this chair be blue.?......I hate blue......my favorite color is green.......... I really prayed to see this blue chair Lord and you did not show it to me, therefore it is green! So I decided to look it up in the bible,it says the chair was painted blue long ago ,only, I really really wanted it to be green. Do I question that the bible says it is blue? When everything in me sees green??? My best freind comes along and says its green .......................ahwwwww finally a new claim that this chair is truly green! YaHHHHOOOOO! A Green Chair! So my question to you is what color IS the chair? .....The truth stands the test of time and its foundation will always be TRUE! (BLUE ) I think you have to remember confusion starts when our free will starts messing with the truth to apease our own indulgences. You therefore see the need for A "pillar and foundation of truth" That is why God gave to us a church. The Church,The Bible and the CC all "dovetail" All expressing the beauty of Christs true Presence. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joey-O Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 [quote name='carrdero' post='1288961' date='Jun 5 2007, 09:15 PM']If it is one thing that Phatmass members have encouraged me to do, it is to pray to God for enlightenment. But what happens when this enlightenment does not match the answers of other religions and with what I have learned from the Bible? What if this personal revelation was so far out in left field from what I have been taught and understand about God? Which of these two takes precedence? In a world filled with many experiences and observations, what does one do when their faith does not match the reality of the the world around them? In the example of modern day revelators who claim to be inspired by God, how does one reconcile the differences of what they have understood from God and the previous writings before them? Should one accept the new claims because they are more recent or should one stay with the biblical writings that they learned and grew up with? If someone claimed to be a revelator for God and after understanding what they had offered, would you believe them or the bible? What would be your reason for this?[/quote] This question is difficult because of the influence your current understanding of tradition may have on your biblical interpretation. While there are some fairly clearly bad traditions of Scriptural interpration (Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses, etc.), many Protestant interpretations of Scripture include playing down aspects of Scripture that Catholics more readily point to. For example, no Catholic can read the book of Romans without seeing the intrinsic link between redemption, gifts of the spirit, becoming a member of the body and the sacrament of Baptism. However, Protestants often believe that the sole purpose of Romans lies in justification by faith. I would definately say that Scripture, as part of the Deposit of the faith, takes precidence over personal revelation. However, can you trust your interpretation of Scripture as absolute and final? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jckinsman Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 So That means the chair is blue and you have several sources to back that up, if you choose to look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 [indent]Simple, be a disciple of Jesus Christ.[/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I love the blue chair analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 One needs to test one's emotions, beliefs and everything via Gods Word. Satan uses emotions, FEELINGS and false religious experiences to mislead people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share Posted June 18, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1297410' date='Jun 17 2007, 05:34 PM']One needs to test one's emotions, beliefs and everything via Gods Word. Satan uses emotions, FEELINGS and false religious experiences to mislead people.[/quote] I often wonder why some religious people do not consider this about Biblical revelators. They seem to have closed the channels between Supreme Being and humans after the Bible was written and compiled. In some cases one who has received personal revelations usually have the same thing another religious organizations have. A collection of beliefs claiming to come from GOD that need to be concluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Test visions, and more against Gods Word. If they fail then it is a false vision. So many of the Marian apparitions directly oppose God's Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1297644' date='Jun 18 2007, 09:41 AM']So many of the Marian apparitions directly oppose God's Word.[/quote] Gee Budge. Yer getting sloppy. 1. If your statement is true, then you admit that SOME of the Marian apparitions support and affirm God's Word and are thus true, which also brings you in line with the Catholic Church as well or 2. If you deny that all Marian apparitions are true, you admit yer statement is a falsehood BTW - which do you believe are false and which are true? There are over 102 just since 1812, you know. Of those, 5 are disapproved by the Church and 19 have received full approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 (edited) They are all false. trying to nit pick much? Its obvious youre just trying to trip me up. So here Ill make it clear to you. ALL OF THE MARIAN APPARITIONS ARE FALSE AND AGAINST GODS WORD. Gods Word teaches the dead CANT come back. {even dead in heaven} [b] "As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more" Job 7:9, 10[/b] There aer acouple more... Oh and if you want to try and claim to me Mary didnt die, I have a TOMB of Mary to point out to you that is Catholic RUN. [url="http://www.christusrex.org/www1/ofm/san/TSmary0.html"]http://www.christusrex.org/www1/ofm/san/TSmary0.html[/url] Edited June 19, 2007 by Budge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Budge' post='1298600' date='Jun 19 2007, 05:35 PM']They are all false. trying to nit pick much? Its obvious youre just trying to trip me up. So here Ill make it clear to you. ALL OF THE MARIAN APPARITIONS ARE FALSE AND AGAINST GODS WORD. Gods Word teaches the dead CANT come back. {even dead in heaven} [b] "As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more" Job 7:9, 10[/b] There aer acouple more... Oh and if you want to try and claim to me Mary didnt die, I have a TOMB of Mary to point out to you that is Catholic RUN. [url="http://www.christusrex.org/www1/ofm/san/TSmary0.html"]http://www.christusrex.org/www1/ofm/san/TSmary0.html[/url][/quote] The Blessed Virgin isnt dead, brother she is assumed with Christ in Heaven. Her body is glorified. Men of the Faith have believed in this long before these unfaithful scientists came along. And I dont want to hear any of your counter-arguments. Ultimately its a mystery, you CANNOT prove it. You must recieve the truth from God in the act of faith. And even then us mortals will never be able to fully comprehend the mysteries of faith. Edited June 21, 2007 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDolly Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 We as catholics don't have to believe n private revalations or visions or what have you. It's not required at all. Some of these places,like Conyers,Georgia,and Medjugoire,I never heard of at all,until I saw something on the news or visiting websites or catholic forums. If I did go to a Marian site it would be Lourdes,or some of the very ancient shrines in Europe. Anyhow,no one is forced to believe in these things as a Catholic.And these apparitions and private revelations have to be judged with of course the bible.If there is nothing in the revalations that goes against scrpiture,etc. then they get approved. And yes,there is a tomb of the Virgin in the Holy Land and it has been there many centuries as stated in the link Budge gave.I once had a book about Churches and shrines in the Holy Land that has it in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 [quote]The Blessed Virgin isnt dead, brother she is assumed with Christ in Heaven. Her body is glorified. Men of the Faith have believed in this long before these unfaithful scientists came along. And I dont want to hear any of your counter-arguments. Ultimately its a mystery, you CANNOT prove it. You must recieve the truth from God in the act of faith. And even then us mortals will never be able to fully comprehend the mysteries of faith.[/quote]I do not believe in the assumption of Mary or the immaculate conception. The Bible says Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: I believe that applied to Mary. [quote] shock.gif We as catholics don't have to believe n private revalations or visions or what have you. It's not required at all. Some of these places,like Conyers,Georgia,and Medjugoire,I never heard of at all,until I saw something on the news or visiting websites or catholic forums. If I did go to a Marian site it would be Lourdes,or some of the very ancient shrines[/quote] A church that markets in OPTIONAL beliefs, is one of confusion. [quote]And yes,there is a tomb of the Virgin in the Holy Land and it has been there many centuries as stated in the link Budge gave[/quote]. So why does the lady that supposely NEVER died have a tomb in the Catholic church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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