Judging By Fruits

[prose]

Okay, so I hear all the time in here the Rad Trads and the extreme protestants, and Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics, and Pentecostals etc etc claim they are "true".

Now, if a Church can truly be judged by the fruits, what are the fruits coming out of these things?

(by things I mean out of these Churches. beliefs, etc)

Edited June 5, 2007 by prose

[chelsea]

That depends on what group you ask...if you ask an extreme protestant what good fruits are coming from catholicism, they will most likely answer absolutely none.

If you ask me, while protestantism isnt the truth, at least these people are worshiping Jesus. Ya know what i'm saying?

[Robbi]

This is something ive thought about too & so will just throw my opinion in here...
Though most of us here know the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth, I beleive the individual who is sincere in there heart for Jesus will bear fruit.

Even though non-Catholic Christians dont contain the fullness of truth, if they are sincere in their heart for Jesus then i beleive they will bear fruit as well.

Ok, for a visible Church, unfortunately I dont think you can know a church is the "true" church by judging its fruits in a broad sense as they all may bear good fruits, ie. missionary work. But only by digging into it deeply and finding what the Church really teaches can you find the one true church. The outstanding "fruits" that i see in Catholicism and not in other non-Catholic Christian denominations is the CC universal stance on sanctity of marriage & right to life. I beleive alot of non-Catholic Christians have taken a firm stance in this area but unfortunately its not "essential" to their faith so they dont have to support it as it doesnt effect their salvation. Also their teaching in this area is not universal too.

Peace,

Robbi

Edited June 6, 2007 by Robbi

[Mercy me]

I see it in the power of the Eucharist and the witness of the Saints and faithful. The grace that moves ordinary people in extraordinary ways.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1289227' date='Jun 5 2007, 09:13 PM']I see it in the power of the Eucharist and the witness of the Saints and faithful. The grace that moves ordinary people in extraordinary ways.[/quote]

However this is found outside of the Roman Catholic Church also, possibly one of the most [if not the most] Holy man of our generation could easily be argued to be His Holiness Pope St. Kyrillos VI, even thou he wasn't Roman Catholic and will easily be considered a Saint. I also don't believe that anyone would consider St. Therese to not be a Saint, even thou they might not agree with the Roman Catholic Church.

Reza

[Groo the Wanderer]

Pope? who?

Pope of what?

Edited June 8, 2007 by Groo the Wanderer

[goldenchild17]

there are bad fruits in all groups. Just belonging to a certain group doesn't make one a saint. The fruits, good or bad, of individuals are not to be judged in and of themselves. If this was the case no religion could claim truth. Another factor must be taken into consideration I find that the effort (or lack thereof) to purge such bad fruits is a more telling clue.

Edited June 8, 2007 by goldenchild17

[jeffpugh]

Groo, the pope Reza was speaking of is an orthodox pope. Pope just means father. He is more of a patriarch.

[Katholikos]

Do you not think it's odd that we are judging the Church that Christ founded by whether it bears "good fruit" according to our own personal yardsticks and opinions? As if other "churches" were equal?

The Orthodox are in schism. Protestants are in heresy, though individually they may not be in formal heresy.

The only reason for being Catholic is because Catholicism is true.

Likos

[Katholikos]

[quote name='chelsea' post='1288873' date='Jun 5 2007, 06:32 PM']That depends on what group you ask...if you ask an extreme protestant what good fruits are coming from catholicism, they will most likely answer absolutely none.

If you ask me, while protestantism isnt the truth, at least these people are worshiping Jesus. Ya know what i'm saying?[/quote]

Yes, you're saying that Protestants worship Jesus and Catholics don't.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1292262' date='Jun 10 2007, 07:34 PM']Yes, you're saying that Protestants worship Jesus and Catholics don't.[/quote]
no, she's saying that the fruits you see are dependent on your perspective.

[Katholikos]

Maybe that's what she meant?

"If you ask me, while protestantism isnt the truth, at least these people are worshiping Jesus. Ya know what i'm saying?"

At least these people [Protestants] are [and by implication Catholics are not] worshipping Jesus" is the way I read it. Sorry if I misunderstood the words. We all sometimes say things we don't mean.

You are a trained writer, right?

Likos

Edit to add P.S. I am not a trained writer

Edited June 11, 2007 by Katholikos

[jeffpugh]

Never would have guessed. Viva Christus Rex!

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1292373' date='Jun 10 2007, 08:47 PM']Maybe that's what she meant?

"If you ask me, while protestantism isnt the truth, at least these people are worshiping Jesus. Ya know what i'm saying?"

At least these people [Protestants] are [and by implication Catholics are not] worshipping Jesus" is the way I read it. Sorry if I misunderstood the words. We all sometimes say things we don't mean.

You are a trained writer, right?

Likos[/quote]
I am a trained writer, and I read that very differently. Let's break it down and I'll explain my reading. Or, perhaps she will come back on and clarify.

[quote]That depends on what group you ask...[/quote]I'm guessing that part is clear.

[quote]if you ask an extreme protestant what good fruits are coming from catholicism, they will most likely answer absolutely none.[/quote]
Reworded: Some protestants will say there is no good fruit coming out of Catholicism.

[quote]If you ask me, while protestantism isnt the truth, at least these people are worshiping Jesus. Ya know what i'm saying?[/quote]
I'm assuming that she means to juxtapose this sentence against the previous one, given that she started out saying that it depends which group you ask. Therefore, I assume that she, when she says "If you ask me," means to imply that she is a Catholic, in contrast to the Prots she brought up in the sentence before.

She goes on to say that Protestantism isn't the truth, then says "at least these people (presumably Protestants) are worshiping Jesus."

So, while some Protestants might say Catholics have no good fruit, she, as a Catholic, sees Protestants as at least worshiping Jesus. That's my interpretation.

[chelsea]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1292262' date='Jun 10 2007, 09:34 PM']Yes, you're saying that Protestants worship Jesus and Catholics don't.[/quote]

no no no. I meant the way terra explained it:


[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1292391' date='Jun 10 2007, 11:02 PM']I am a trained writer, and I read that very differently. Let's break it down and I'll explain my reading. Or, perhaps she will come back on and clarify.

I'm guessing that part is clear.
Reworded: Some protestants will say there is no good fruit coming out of Catholicism.
I'm assuming that she means to juxtapose this sentence against the previous one, given that she started out saying that it depends which group you ask. Therefore, I assume that she, when she says "If you ask me," means to imply that she is a Catholic, in contrast to the Prots she brought up in the sentence before.

She goes on to say that Protestantism isn't the truth, then says "at least these people (presumably Protestants) are worshiping Jesus."

So, while some Protestants might say Catholics have no good fruit, she, as a Catholic, sees Protestants as at least worshiping Jesus. That's my interpretation. [/quote]


I'm totally 100% CATHOLIC. We've got the Jesus fully and completely in the Eucharist. I meant that, if I (as a catholic) am looking for SOMETHING good about protestant faiths, its that they believe in Christ. Maybe not the Eucharist, but at least in Christ as our savior.

Hope that clarifies my statement.