goldenchild17 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) [b]is the section below quoted from the catechism infallible?[/b] No it's not. [b]should abortion doctors be executed?[/b] I believe so. [b]do you think the certainty of life in prison for a crime is as much of a deterrant as the death penalty? [/b] I don't know (and voted so). I believe the death penalty is fully justifiable in cases where guilt is absolutely proven. Though I think (and haven't thought it completely through) that the death penalty can be substituted for life in prison for a full confession and proof of sincere apology for the act committed. Edited May 31, 2007 by goldenchild17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 considering that the catechism segment came from JPII's document, as cited in the first post, how do you say it's not infallible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) I don't believe the church represented by the Vatican from John XXIII to today is Catholic, so I wouldn't consider any document by JPII or the new catechism to be infallible. Now whether or not the seal of infallibility was intended for these documents, and whether or not they are to be considered infallible by those who accept it as a Catholic document, that is an entirely different discussion. But for purposes of this thread that's off-subject and would deter from the thread. Edited May 31, 2007 by goldenchild17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSalesian Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1285249' date='May 31 2007, 05:59 PM']considering that the catechism segment came from JPII's document, as cited in the first post, how do you say it's not infallible?[/quote] Just because it came from the Pope doesnt mean it is infalliable. He has to speak 'excathedra' meaning from the chair. He has to speak and announce that he is speaking infalliably inorder to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) or speak in such terms that it's clear he's speaking infallibly even if it's not expressly infallible. we'd have to look it up and read the context. Well, that's what I thought, but then I found this. [quote]Question: Is an encyclical infallible? Is a "letter" infallible? Answer: No encyclical or letter is infallible in an extraordinary sense unless the Pope specifically seeks to define an article of faith as Pope Pius IX did with the Immaculate Conception in the "Apostolic Constitution" Ineffabilis Deus (1854). In Munificentissimus Deus (1950), Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption like this: "...by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own authority, we pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory. Hence if anyone, which God forbid, should dare willfully to deny or to call into doubt that which we have defined, let him know that he has fallen away completely from the divine and Catholic Faith. (44,45) Unless, you get this type of language from a papal document, then no teaching is being extraordinarily defined. On the other hand, that does not give us the license to "opt out" of the teachings of papal encyclicals either. This is especially true if what is being taught has always been taught by the Church. These particular teachings enjoy a presumption of infallibility unless later revoked. A good example of this is Pope Paul VI's encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (1968) where he reaffirmed the Catholic Church's perennial rejection of artificial contraception as a grievous sin against God. John Pacheco The Catholic Legate June 7, 2002[/quote] For a skeptic to the CC such as myself, this is legitimate to the popes who know about the rules described here. Popes before they defined what's actually infallibe and what's not seems like that should be subject to interpretation. Otherwise, the popes could have been intending and pretty clearly intending to state infallibly but didn't jump through the right loops and the CC can get out of error by technicality. I don't know if this has occurred though. Maybe this where you can interpret older papal texts is open to interpretation, and this is what I twas thinking abotu in terms of what can be interpreted, and I was wrong about current day encyclicals. Edited May 31, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicinsd Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 [quote] [b]should abortion doctors be executed?[/b] I believe so.[/quote] What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Not clear enough for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jckinsman Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 This question, I do not understand? What they do is extremely evil~ Yet when you watch the movie "the silent scream" those two doctors,that had filmed it,one right away quit and the other soon there after. Makes you kind of wonder if they TRULY knew the gravity of what they were doing ,they were fine until they watched the film and saw the little one sceaming and trying to get away!??? I am aware that some know fully what they are doing,and don't care,and some are more lured by the money.They go numbly to there jobs and just work and justify there actions with pitiful excuses. The reactions to this film from these two doctors made me realize this that God changed there hearts by the reality of the horror. So why would you execute someone for that? Is it not better that one sinner come back to the Lord? We must pray for these Doctors and mothers! Not execute them! JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 [quote name='jckinsman' post='1285715' date='Jun 1 2007, 01:20 AM']The reactions to this film from these two doctors made me realize this that God changed there hearts by the reality of the horror. So why would you execute someone for that? Is it not better that one sinner come back to the Lord?[/quote] I'm not aware of the case you are referring to, but I understand things like this happen and I believe in cases of a full confession of their guilt and some evidence of true repentance then the sentence can, and should, be reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jckinsman Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Two abortion doctors one day decided to film the entire process of an abortion. They would spend the day,filming what happens inside the womb of the mother in hopes to ease the fears of the women coming in for the abortion. Their intent was to prove it was no big deal, and that the fetus did not even know what was happening! After the day was done both of them decided to sit down and preveiw the film. What they saw was a complete horror. A tiny baby struggling to get away from the doctors tools and then turning towards the side as the baby was dieing and screaming, hence the name "the silent scream" I believe you can get the film to preveiw yourself. I warn you though it's not pretty! But beyond the movie itself, it really opened the eyes of two Doctors that once thought it was okay! How many more Doctors can be enlightened? I agree, Full Repentance is a must! Execution though? Yikes! I also agree a crime has taken place,don't get me wrong there will be consequences for there actions in this life or the next! Peace! JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezaMikhaeil Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 [quote name='jckinsman' post='1285976' date='Jun 1 2007, 02:08 PM']Two abortion doctors one day decided to film the entire process of an abortion. They would spend the day,filming what happens inside the womb of the mother in hopes to ease the fears of the women coming in for the abortion. Their intent was to prove it was no big deal, and that the fetus did not even know what was happening! After the day was done both of them decided to sit down and preveiw the film. What they saw was a complete horror. A tiny baby struggling to get away from the doctors tools and then turning towards the side as the baby was dieing and screaming, hence the name "the silent scream" I believe you can get the film to preveiw yourself. I warn you though it's not pretty! But beyond the movie itself, it really opened the eyes of two Doctors that once thought it was okay! How many more Doctors can be enlightened? I agree, Full Repentance is a must! Execution though? Yikes! I also agree a crime has taken place,don't get me wrong there will be consequences for there actions in this life or the next! Peace! JC[/quote] There's a hiphop cru called "Communalien" with a song called "Silent Screams" that you might like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicinsd Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='1285705' date='Jun 1 2007, 01:17 AM']Not clear enough for you?[/quote] It because of fanatics such as you- who advocate the murder of the doctors- that the anti-abortion has been harassed so very much. The blood of many is on your hands. You would be ashamed of yourself- but you don't have those scrupples, or any. [b]You are not pro-life. You aren't even anti-abortion; as you obviously favor aborting the doctor's life. [/b] May God have pity on your murderous soul. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 Your comments are uncharitable to say the least. Sadly, more then 45 million innocent human beings have been killed in the United States alone through the crime of abortion. That said, the doctors who perform these horrific procedures should be prosecuted for murder, and they should willingly accept a punishment that is commensurate with the gravity of their own evil actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicinsd Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 And saying murder is ok is charitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 A person who performs an abortion is a murderer, and should face criminal prosecution and punishment. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now