Pope Restoring Vatican's Muslim Office

[kenrockthefirst]

[i]Pope Restoring Vatican's Muslim Office

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 29, 2007

Filed at 12:21 p.m. ET

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- Pope Benedict XVI plans to restore a Vatican office that specializes in relations with Muslims a year after he was criticized for disbanding it.

The Vatican secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, said in an interview in an Italian newspaper that the Pontifical Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue would be made a separate office and no longer merged with the Vatican's cultural office.

He said the move shows the importance the Vatican attaches to dialogue with other religions.

Vatican officials said Tuesday it was not known when the actual decision would be announced or whether English Archbishop Michael Fitzgerald -- considered a top Islamic expert -- would be brought back from his current post as papal envoy in Egypt.

When Benedict announced in early 2006 he was transferring Fitzgerald and merging his office with the Vatican's office for culture, some analysts worried that the Vatican would be left without a resident expert in Muslim affairs at a critical time.

Church relations with Muslims were badly strained after a speech by Benedict in Germany in September that linked Islam to violence. Benedict said he regretted that Muslims were offended by his remarks.

In November, the German-born pope made what was considered a successful visit to predominantly Muslim Turkey. [b]During the trip, the pope prayed alongside a Muslim clergyman while visiting a mosque.[/b][/i]

[emphasis added]

The Church is absolutely correct to open and maintain channels of communication with other religions. Does Budge have a point, however, about taking dialogue too far? Would the head imam or whomever from Turkey pray alongside the Pope in St. Peter's? While on the one hand, we want to say, "we respect you as human beings and fully recognize your freedom of conscience," on the other hand, shouldn't we also say, "while we recognize your right to believe what you want, we believe that we have the full revelation of Truth and don't want to condone or even appear to condone some kind of equivalence between what you believe with what we believe?"

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1283426' date='May 29 2007, 11:01 AM'][. . .] Does Budge have a point, however, about taking dialogue too far?[/quote]
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1283439' date='May 29 2007, 12:18 PM']Even a broken clock is right twice a day.[/quote]

True that.

[chelsea]

I think it is VERY important that B16 restores the Vatican's connection to Islam. I also think that it was very symbolic of him to pray in a mosque. We all have the same God (although some faiths dont agree). I think i recall JPII praying in a mosque as well. I think it is very humble of the Holy Father.

[Groo the Wanderer]

Very important to point out that while Papa Ben DID pray in a mosque, he did NOT unfurl a prayer mat, prostrate himself, and face Mecca whilst doing it.

Just 'cause he prays in a mosque does not mean he is worshiping the Muslim idea of God. I pray in the shower, but I am most certainly NOT worshiping the Almighty Loofah...

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1283439' date='May 29 2007, 12:18 PM']Even a broken clock is right twice a day.[/quote]


[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1283471' date='May 29 2007, 01:31 PM']True that.[/quote]

So do I infer agreement with Budge's assertion that one can go too far in the name of dialogue?


[quote name='chelsea' post='1283559' date='May 29 2007, 03:00 PM']I think it is VERY important that B16 restores the Vatican's connection to Islam. I also think that it was very symbolic of him to pray in a mosque. We all have the same God (although some faiths dont agree). I think i recall JPII praying in a mosque as well. I think it is very humble of the Holy Father.[/quote]

Yes and no. While Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are "Abrahamic" religions, there are essential differences: in short, Christianity is the fulfillment of the the promises made to Israel, Christ is the fulfillment and end of the law. Islam does not regard Jesus as the Son of God, as God, and therefore is fundamentally flawed. Islam adds nothing to the revelation of God in Christ, and detracts much. So while all human beings must be respected as having been created in the image of God, and freedom of conscience upheld, it is an error to suggest equivalence between Christianity and any other religion on that basis.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='chelsea' post='1283559' date='May 29 2007, 03:00 PM']I think it is VERY important that B16 restores the Vatican's connection to Islam. I also think that it was very symbolic of him to pray in a mosque. We all have the same God (although some faiths dont agree). I think i recall JPII praying in a mosque as well. I think it is very humble of the Holy Father.[/quote]

The Christians and the Mohammadans do not adore the same God.

The Christians adore the true God who is one God in three Divine Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

The Mohammadans do not adore the Son and the Holy Ghost, and therefore do not adore the Father.

[quote][b]Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, St. John - Chapter V:[/b]
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life: so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. 22 For neither doth the Father judge any man, but hath given all judgment to the Son. 23 That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father. [u]He who honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father, who hath sent him.[/u] 24 Amen, amen I say unto you, that he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting; and cometh not into judgment, but is passed from death to life. 25 Amen, amen I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live.
[url="http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=5&l=23&f=s#x"]http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk...;l=23&f=s#x[/url][/quote]

[quote][b]Douay-Rheims Catholic bible, II St. John - Chapter I:[/b]
7 For many seducers are gone out into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh: this is a seducer and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that you lose not the things which you have wrought: but that you may receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him, God speed you.[/quote]

[kujo]

My buddy and I walked to our local burrito shop the other day. Before we ate, we crossed ourselves, asked God to bless us, our food, and all our brothers and sisters in Christ. After we were done, we chowed down on some hardcore spicy burritoes!

Does the fact that I prayed in the burrito shop disrespect God because the religion of the owner may be different than mine?

Edited May 29, 2007 by kujo

[prose]

I don't know what to think about this...

On one hand, prayer can be done anywhere... On the other hand, it [i]does[/i] give the impression that we believe that we worship the same God. It is like praying in a Hindu temple. We don't believe that religion, but it certainly could be cause for scandal.

We are even reccomended not to attend services of other Christian faiths, and yet we are praying in non-christian worship places??

Seems wrong.

[chelsea]

[quote name='prose' post='1283668' date='May 29 2007, 07:50 PM']We are even reccomended not to attend services of other Christian faiths, and yet we are praying in non-christian worship places??

Seems wrong.[/quote]

see, i've always been told to go ahead and go to other services if i'm curious. As long as I dont recieve communion, and i make my sunday obligation to the Catholic mass, there isnt a problem with it. Priests have told me that.

I wasnt aware that this was discouraged.
I mean, I dont go galavanting around protestant services. I just didnt know it was wrong.

[prose]

I don't think it is "wrong" per se. I just know that I have heard people say not to go to services of other Christian faiths.

[mortify]

Personally I think it's confusing. The Pope was on the right track in the beginning, he needs to stay on the course of Truth no matter what the criticism is.


Edit add: We're always trying to appease some group of people, we should concern ourselves with pleasing God and preserving our own religion. I don't see other groups trying to appease the Catholic Church. Who cares what the Muslims think, we don't need to apologize for speaking truthfully about their religion. I see absolutely no benefit in going to pray among them, other than bolstering their confidence that their religion was created to dominate over others...

I'm about to go into a rant so i'll stop myself now.

Edited May 30, 2007 by mortify

[Guest T-Bone]

How would you all feel about our Holy Father praying in a synagogue?

[mortify]

dude, read mortalium animos

[Apotheoun]

I think that dialogue is overrated, and that it would be far better to try and convert Muslims to Christianity.

As far as the Pope's praying with infidels is concerned, this kind of activity will cause problems with the Eastern Orthodox, who see it as a form of theological indifferentism.