Kindergartners To Be Taught Homosexuality, Bisexuality, And Transsexu

[carrdero]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1283249' date='May 29 2007, 08:19 AM']Wrong, wrong, wrong... you couldn't be more wrong.....[/quote]
I noticed by the extended periods that there may have been something else you wanted to add. Do you need a moment to elaborate on why I could be so wrong or did you just feel better by letting that out?

[homeschoolmom]

The idea that there isn't "a factor of age anymore" is wrong (if I understand what you are trying to say. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that). And the idea that "the sooner a child is informed, the better" is wrong. Learning how to write scripts is not the same thing as processing complex ideas on sexuality.

Sorry to have been unclear.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1283274' date='May 29 2007, 10:07 AM']A difficult question that I think no one human should have to answer for everyone. I do not believe that there is any scientific method to measure morality so we would most likely have to rely on our own personal principles, understanding and/or experiences in the way that kindness individually presents and/or expresses itself to us. In the example of homosexuals, bisexuals and trans-sexuals there is no evidence that has been offered or compiled to/by/for me to suggest that these sexual preferences are inherently evil or entirely incorrect even when they are compared to the practice of heterosexuality.[/quote]

So every person as their own judge of morality?

So if I think "might makes right" and I want your possessions, I shoot you and take what I want.

[SJP]

[quote]carrdero writes: A difficult question that I think no one human should have to answer for everyone. I do not believe that there is any scientific method to measure morality so we would most likely have to rely on our own personal principles, understanding and/or experiences in the way that kindness individually presents and/or expresses itself to us. In the example of homosexuals, bisexuals and trans-sexuals there is no evidence that has been offered or compiled to/by/for me to suggest that these sexual preferences are inherently evil or entirely incorrect even when they are compared to the practice of heterosexuality.[/quote]

So you're an advocate of relativism. "I'll do what's best for me, you do what's best for you." The adoption of such a position makes it impossible to determine the "Truth" of any moral norms. There can be no Truth, because people create their own Truth. Relativism requires amorality. There can be no good or evil because there is no standard. The relativist can never say something is good or evil, he betrays himself. If morality is based on individual preferences, who are we to judge another person's actions. Murder, rape, theft may all be True and good for someone, but the relativist must remain silent.

I'm going to butcher a quote I heard once:

"The relativist/atheist need not believe in God or moral absolutes to be a humanitarian or lover of culture. Of course not, in exactly the same way that the great grandchild of a multi-millionaire who has set up a wonderful trust fund has no need to worry about paying his rent. It was the original capital that provided the revenues. Atheists/relativists committed to morality and social justice are simply people who chose not to grow the equity, but to live off the returns of the beliefs of their forebears.

[carrdero]

[quote name='ofpheritup' post='1283263' date='May 29 2007, 08:50 AM']How is the Bible outdated?[/quote]

It was written in and by the perception of primitive scribes and combined by the ancient idealistic endeavors of biased scholars which severely limits the foresight, wisdom and enlightenment that we have all come to understand as GOD. If I want to be informed and updated on the latest and most current developments, I wouldn’t pick up a newspaper from the Renaissance period.

[quote]ofpheritup writes: I thought God was Eternal, hence (yes, I said hence) His Word is Eternal.[/quote]Well then if GOD is Eternal, I’m sure you wouldn’t have any problem agreeing with me that the Bible is unfinished.

[quote]ofpheritup writes: You know, "one size(word) fits all."[/quote]
Yes, well before you outfit me for one of those latex gloves, I’d like to introduce you to an amazing concept called the fingerprint.

[carrdero]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1283309' date='May 29 2007, 10:00 AM']So every person as their own judge of morality?

So if I think "might makes right" and I want your possessions, I shoot you and take what I want.[/quote]
One of the easiest lessons to learn in this physical existence is that people will do whatever they want to do. If someone wants to shoot me for my possessions they will do so with absolutely no regard or fear for God, the law or society. Now, if I may use cmotherofpearl as an example, I (personally) know that she would not shoot me because I know for a fact that any consequences that she could imagine that could occur to her as a result from her shooting me for all my possessions would not be convenient or in agreement with her lifestyle and her custom style of living but free will dictates that cmotherofpearl does indeed have the ability to try to shoot me for my possessions (if she so desires). Free will also dictates that the fact that I know cmotherofpearl won't shoot me at this moment can change by tomorrow (either way I'm locking my doors).

Edited May 29, 2007 by carrdero

[Aloysius]

actually, carrderro, I do have a desire to shoot you and take all your possessions... I have lots of college debts to pay. fear of God absolutely does stop me. I don't fear the law so much, though.

but back to my point: how does teaching about transexuality, bisexuality, and homosexuality (the only things discussed in this legislation) help children who are in confusing sexual situations where someone older is abusing them? it does not.

other than that, the decisions about how to deal with children who have desires of transexuality or bisexuality or homosexuality should be left up to the PARENTS at this stage of their life. No one has the right to tell anyone else's child, when they are in kindergarten, that they might need a sex change operation. even IF all that were morally okay, and you are quite convinced that we cannot know whether or not it is, such a thing should not be allowed to be exposed to children at that age.

we have to stop sexing up young children and let them be KIDS. This legislation is only different in DEGREE to sexual molestation as far as I can tell. It's a different degree of sexually mollesting them by sexing up minds which are not even hormonally active yet.

You teach them that if someone touches them inappropriately, that is wrong, and all those types of safety things; but you don't teach them all about sex when they're kindergartners.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1283334' date='May 29 2007, 10:32 AM']we have to stop sexing up young children and let them be KIDS.[/quote]

[carrdero]

[quote]SJP writes: So you're an advocate of relativism. "I'll do what's best for me, you do what's best for you." The adoption of such a position makes it impossible to determine the "Truth" of any moral norms.[/quote]The Truth comes in two forms, Personal and Universal. In no better example is this better shared or explained than in the composition of music. Two people abiding by the Universal laws in which music is constructed and composed can come up with two completely different personal compositions by following the same Universal musical notations. Truths can change as well as beliefs. Before 1960 the Truth was that we could not put a man on the moon, today that Truth has been changed. “I’ll do best for me because what is best for me may not be best for you.” You say that milk is good for you and you know that truthfully milk is good for your body. I will not disagree with you but I will truthfully explain to you that I am lactose intolerant. The same “widom”, “Truth”, “enlightenment”, animal sacrifices, stonings that “God” decreed to ancient societies might have been fine for them but I live in a new era, a new generation, with new prospects, challenges and experiences and yet I am still lactose intolerant.

[quote]SJP writes: There can be no Truth, because people create their own Truth.[/quote]
Who should know us better than us and GOD? Do you know me better than me or GOD?

[quote]SJP writes: Relativism requires amorality. There can be no good or evil because there is no standard. The relativist can never say something is good or evil, he betrays himself. If morality is based on individual preferences, who are we to judge another person's actions.[/quote]There is no one who should judge another person’s actions. Not one person possesses the full understanding and breath of another individual’s life or existence to place or affix a judgment. How can one possibly make a judgment on a movie that they have not completely seen? One of the reasons why people feel that they should be entitled to be so judgmental is because they cannot be in evidence or are impatient of God’s judgment. A man who kills another person is tried before a jury of his peers. Yet this is not enough. What some people really want to see and be witness to is what God is going to do about it but it is never revealed. For all we know, GOD could not have any standard of right or wrong, good or bad, moral or immoral but one thing is for sure, people certainly feel the need to make judgments on other people.

[quote]SJP writes: So you're an advocate of relativism.[/quote]
Judgment.

Edited May 29, 2007 by carrdero

[Aloysius]

this is not about all that. this is about a government institution teaching kindergartners that homosexuality, bisexuality, and transexuality are good potential lifestyles.

[homeschoolmom]

Carrdero, what, in your opinion, is the purpose of public schools?

[SJP]

[quote]carrdero writes: Truths can change as well as beliefs. Before 1960 the Truth was that we could not put a man on the moon, today that Truth has been changed. [/quote]That's not an accurate statement. Before 1960, [b]we had not determined [u]how[/u] to put a man on the moon[/b]. However, it was not the case that we [b]could not [/b]put a man on the moon. There is a difference.


[quote]Carrdero writes: There is no one who should judge another person’s actions.[/quote]

You make judgments every day. Life requires judgment. You have decided to live your life in a particular way. By virtue of this choice, you have rejected other lifestyles. You have judged. You might say, “I have not judged, I attempt to keep an open mind about the possibilities of life” But that is a judgment! Every choice entails judgment. To accept one thing, requires the rejection of the opposite. To embrace an open mind is to reject a closed one. Now you might respond “It is good to have an open mind” -- But this is yet another judgment. You cannot escape judgment it is part of the Human condition.

When you say “There is no one who should judge another person’s actions” You yourself are making a judgment!! You are making an absolute claim that is completely contradictory to the content of the claim.

Perhaps an example will help.

Jack says to Jim: “Jim you should not judge, judging others actions is wrong.”
Jim responds: “Well I’m glad you think that no one should judge another, so please take your own advice and stop judging me because I’d like to go on judging who I please.”



Chesterton said, "Morality is always dreadfully complicated to a man who has lost all his principles."

[carrdero]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1283377' date='May 29 2007, 11:35 AM']Carrdero, what, in your opinion, is the purpose of public schools?[/quote]
LOL, you may be asking the wrong person. My experiences at school involved learning the three "T's". Tortured, Teased and tormented, so I can honestly admit that the purpose of school is not winning any popularity contests. I would say the main purpose is to learn but I cannot quite remember half of the things that I was supposed to know. I understand that there is a certain cirriculum involved and that teachers aren't really employed to teach their opinions but I do understand that there is a plan instigated towards teaching kids to prepare for adulthood. One of my old art teachers that I revisited after 20 years would confess how difficult it became to teach kids after every year. His assignment plan did not vary much but the attitude and the attentiveness of his students did. I also recall him telling me how hard it was getting the proper tools and equipment for training kids in today’s modern world. Having enough computers so students could get an hands-on-experience to do computer graphics depended on how much funding the school could budget for certain classes. It is not easy being a teacher.

What I believe will eventually happen is that schooling will end up in the home. Classes for different grades may be broadcast on television or the computer and students will be responsible to send their assignments over the internet. There will be an overseer available in each neighborhood to check up on the progress of a child and to offer any assitance in areas that needs improvement. One reason why this may happen is that parents will no longer tolerate the risk of safety it involves sending their kids to school. The second reason may be what we are experiencing on this thread. The major adjustment that would have to made is that an adult (or someone’s parent) may have to remain home and be present with the child. This does not bode well for the two-income family and even though there wouldn’t necessarily be any more constructions called schools to maintain, I do not foresee any financial breaks in taxes for homeowners.

[carrdero]

[quote]SPJ writes: You make judgments every day. Life requires judgment. You have decided to live your life in a particular way. By virtue of this choice, you have rejected other lifestyles.[/quote]

The kind of judgment that I am describing involves sentencing and punishment and it is something that I do not practice and do not have the authority to carry out. Like I mentioned earlier there is an authority established in our country to uphold our laws and it is up to us to be accountable and responsible for our decisions and actions regarding this law and to be prepared for any consequenses when we are not accepting of them. But for someone to tell me that homosexuals, bisexuals and trans-sexuals are evil and that the practitioners of such lifestyles will be condemned to an eternal damnation is not someone that has decided that this choice is just unacceptable to their individuality but has made the rash assumption that it is unacceptable for everyone. There is no human or organization operating today that has the authority to make such judgments. Not one. If one believes that there is a God who makes these judgments than let God make them. If one is not sastified with God’s verdict or one is impatient for His justice it does not give anyone the right to pass such evaluations in His absence.

[carrdero]

[quote]Aloysius writes: actually, carrderro, I do have a desire to shoot you and take all your possessions... I have lots of college debts to pay. fear of God absolutely does stop me. I don't fear the law so much, though.[/quote]What else is there to say to an offer like that except that you are more than welcome to try. You are also welcome to just ask me for the money. You might not even need to display the gun.

[quote]Aloysius writes: this is not about all that. this is about a government institution teaching kindergartners that homosexuality, bisexuality, and transexuality are good potential lifestyles.[/quote]

I am still not quite sure how they arrived at kindergartners as a starting point. I am also not sure that their responsibility is to teach these lifestyles as potentially good as opposed to potentially viable. What would be really interesting is when and if these classes begin if some parents could sit in and and report exactly what is being discussed and taught.

Aloysius please give me some extra time to respond to your other comments in Post #97. I want some moments to think about them.