Kindergartners To Be Taught Homosexuality, Bisexuality, And Transsexu

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='the Apologist' post='1282801' date='May 28 2007, 07:51 PM'] What is this! Are becoming communists? Is this Communist Cuba?

Gosh! This SO against the will of the people! How can they claim rights over OUR CHILDREN! These gays who CAN'T have children want to control ours!

Just wait until Hilary Clinton gets in the office...

we ain't seen nothing yet folks...

get your Rosary beads out...[/quote]

Most homosexuals I know could care less about YOUR CHILDREN. Get some perspective. Do you think there is a room somewhere where gay people sit plotting against your straight life?

[SJP]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1283126' date='May 29 2007, 12:44 AM']I guess it just shocks me how rarely discussion about helping the homeless, poor, sick, under-insured, over-worked, abused, forgotten occurs on these forusm, but if we talk about SEX everyone gets riled up and is calling for the death penalty. Why is biology so interesting to orthodox Catholics?

The embracing of hiphop culture and language such as "dopest" on these forums seems to me a perpetuation of a violent, dangerous culture but no one seems to mind. But dare we speak of letting kids know they're are other ways people have chosen to exist in and the dogs are unleashed. Double standards, me thinks.

I had to give a homeless man my lunch the other day at an intersection because he hadn't eaten in three days. Who's enraged about that?[/quote]


The two topics are not mutually exclusive, it's not as if we must either focus on preventing poverty or focus on disordered sex. We should discuss both, and all issues related to the teachings of the Church. If you're not satisfied with the focus of the discussion topics here at phatmass, then perhaps you should post more about those issues that you feel are lacking coverage.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1283126' date='May 29 2007, 12:44 AM']I guess it just shocks me how rarely discussion about helping the homeless, poor, sick, under-insured, over-worked, abused, forgotten occurs on these forusm, but if we talk about SEX everyone gets riled up and is calling for the death penalty. Why is biology so interesting to orthodox Catholics?

The embracing of hiphop culture and language such as "dopest" on these forums seems to me a perpetuation of a violent, dangerous culture but no one seems to mind. But dare we speak of letting kids know they're are other ways people have chosen to exist in and the dogs are unleashed. Double standards, me thinks.

I had to give a homeless man my lunch the other day at an intersection because he hadn't eaten in three days. Who's enraged about that?[/quote]
I don't really have just anger about that, just just sadness and hope that they could be helped. I understand that people with certain political idealogies might direct an anger they feel is justified against the government.. actually, as influencd as i am by Chesteron I have a just anger against Big Business and Big Government over the current economic realities and the modern forms of poverty; though poverty itself as a reality only inspires in my just pity and desire to help those who go hungry.

Start topics about these things if you think they are ignored, don't post about them in topics that are about something else.

What inspires this to come down to expressions of just anger are that there are clearcut perpetraters of something which endangers our children. But if you get me started about Hudge and Gudge and how they're ruining Jones' life ([url="http://www.chesterton.org/discover/nutshell/hudgeandgudge.html"]explanation[/url]) then you might see some righteous anger come out. But as I said about Christian Charity teaching us to be wary of our anger, I do only let it come out in cases of extreme villainy (like if someone killed somenoe who was homeless, or a legislature caused homeless people to die of starvation)

[Aloysius]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1283127' date='May 29 2007, 12:46 AM']Most homosexuals I know could care less about YOUR CHILDREN. Get some perspective. Do you think there is a room somewhere where gay people sit plotting against your straight life?[/quote]
I agree about that-- we should not overgeneralize the "homosexuals" as our enemies. The only enemies I have directed anger against in this thread are those who would support the legislation described in the OP.

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1283145' date='May 29 2007, 12:04 AM']I don't really have just anger about that, just just sadness and hope that they could be helped. I understand that people with certain political idealogies might direct an anger they feel is justified against the government.. actually, as influencd as i am by Chesteron I have a just anger against Big Business and Big Government over the current economic realities and the modern forms of poverty; though poverty itself as a reality only inspires in my just pity and desire to help those who go hungry.

Start topics about these things if you think they are ignored, don't post about them in topics that are about something else.

What inspires this to come down to expressions of just anger are that there are clearcut perpetraters of something which endangers our children. But if you get me started about Hudge and Gudge and how they're ruining Jones' life ([url="http://www.chesterton.org/discover/nutshell/hudgeandgudge.html"]explanation[/url]) then you might see some righteous anger come out. But as I said about Christian Charity teaching us to be wary of our anger, I do only let it come out in cases of extreme villainy (like if someone killed somenoe who was homeless, or a legislature caused homeless people to die of starvation)[/quote]

Why does SEX get people so enraged? Why not big and immoral business? Why not sexual abuse by ministers and poor handling of it by bishops? Why not poor clerical formation? Why not governmental corruption? Where is the just agner over those issues? Why is it almost always SEX that gets people upset?

[carrdero]

[quote]SJP writes: And that's the problem, our society has lost its moral compass. [/quote]I don’t remember homosexuality, bisexuality and trans-sexuals being proved immoral. Unnatural maybe, but not immoral?

[quote]Socrates writes: So should kindergartners also be taught about the joys of incest, pedophilia, bestiality, sado-masochism, necrophilia, and rape?[/quote]
Are there joys in these things? I would believe that the joys of sex are best expressed and realized when all adult members are in consent. I would think it difficult to discern the agreement of a bleeting sheep or a flailing corpse.

Edited May 29, 2007 by carrdero

[Aloysius]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1283162' date='May 29 2007, 01:36 AM']Why does SEX get people so enraged? Why not big and immoral business? Why not sexual abuse by ministers and poor handling of it by bishops? Why not poor clerical formation? Why not governmental corruption? Where is the just agner over those issues? Why is it almost always SEX that gets people upset?[/quote]
I don't know. Of the things you mentioned, I get mad about the ones with clear vilains; I have just anger against sexualy abusive ministers, especialy with the youth, and big busines (that's gudge) and big and currupt government (that's hudge) and the bishops and the poor seminary formaion.

I get most enraged when there are things that cause little children to stumble; things that affect children are by far the most heinous. this includes what is being discussed here and all forms of sexual abuse especially the clergy.

other than when children are involved, though, sex issues tend not to enrage me that much; though I do find them very important to discuss; issues of sexual morality and radical economics are some of my favorites.. I also enjoy great games of speculative theology and how to apply it to the framework of church teaching. again, go ahead and start topics......... it's just human nature, though, that people tend to be more intersted in sex topics. it's not an orthodox catholic thing, it's just that orthodox cahtolics approach it from moral considerations............ but everyone talks about it. at colleges, they put "sex" in class names to drum up interest; at conferences, they do so for titles of speeches. like the anthropology conference i went to this year. sex his and sex that...1 speech was entitled "Transexuality in a post 9/11 World". no joke.

but this one isn't about all that, it's about undermining parents and exposing young children to things that we believe are morally evil. this is about just anger against the government corrupting of youth. if they were OLDER and the curriculum offered both the best arguments for and against these lifestyles, i woudl not be as angered.

[carrdero]

[quote]Aloysis writes: I don't know. Of the things you mentioned, I get mad about the ones with clear vilains; I have just anger against sexualy abusive ministers, especialy with the youth, and big busines (that's gudge) and big and currupt government (that's hudge) and the bishops and the poor seminary formaion.

I get most enraged when there are things that cause little children to stumble; things that affect children are by far the most heinous. this includes what is being discussed here and all forms of sexual abuse especially the clergy.[/quote]
This is why I feel it is important to inform children. Children who are confused or misunderstanding about sex may be involved in a situation that they may feel is out of their control. Nothing could be more intimidating than complying with an elder (that they have been taught to respect and listen to) involving a position that they clearly have no business being in. Parents have such an innocent, protective view of their children that they really never expect to have to explain these precautions to children because they are pure or they believe that these instances would ever happen to their children. As history has proven that even the most respected, up-standing members of society could be a concern to their children. Teach them, teach children before it happens, not after.

Edited May 29, 2007 by carrdero

[johnnydigit]

farmers and bestiality. don't they get a voice too?

[img]http://209.85.62.26/5714/179/emo/Amy_Sheep.gif[/img]

[Aloysius]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1283207' date='May 29 2007, 03:34 AM']This is why I feel it is important to inform children. Children who are confused or misunderstanding about sex may be involved in a situation that they may feel is out of their control. Nothing could be more intimidating than complying with an elder (that they have been taught to respect and listen to) involving a position that they clearly have no business being in. Parents have such an innocent, protective view of their children that they really never expect to have to explain these precautions to children because they are pure or they believe that these instances would ever happen to their children. As history has proven that even the most respected, up-standing members of society could be a concern to their children. Teach them, teach children before it happens, not after.[/quote]
teach them that homosexuality, transexuality, and bisexuality are normal and acceptable lifestyles that some people may choose to live out? or teach them that if anyone touches them inapropriately that it is not their fault and they should tell their parents or teachers or the police. the former is its own form of sexual abuse of minors; the latter is good safety tips that I am not oposing (though pesonaly, i want my children to get all their sex and danger education at an early age from me and do not trust the educatoin system to do the job)

[carrdero]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1283214' date='May 29 2007, 02:55 AM']teach them that homosexuality, transexuality, and bisexuality are normal and acceptable lifestyles that some people may choose to live out? or teach them that if anyone touches them inapropriately that it is not their fault and they should tell their parents or teachers or the police. the former is its own form of sexual abuse of minors; the latter is good safety tips that I am not oposing (though pesonaly, i want my children to get all their sex and danger education at an early age from me and do not trust the educatoin system to do the job)[/quote]
I was specifically addressing the concerns of the paragraphs quoted.

[SJP]

[quote]carrdero writes: I don’t remember homosexuality, bisexuality and trans-sexuals being proved immoral. Unnatural maybe, but not immoral?[/quote]Well what is your standard of proof when it comes to questions of morality. Are you talking about scientifically verifiable "proofs", because if that's the case, I can't think of any moral norms that can be "proven".

So what is your standard of proof?

[quote]carrdero writes: Are there joys in these things? I would believe that the joys of sex are best expressed and realized when all adult members are in consent. I would think it difficult to discern the agreement of a bleeting sheep or a flailing corpse.[/quote]

What if there are people who do find joy in such activities, who are you to deny them.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1282219' date='May 27 2007, 04:13 PM']Isn't it nice when are schools are doing such a great job that they can add thing to the regular curriculum? Ignore the giant pool of sarcasm.

The truth of the matter is that US schools are falling further and further behind the rest of the world and no one knows why. Could it be that instead of reading, writing, math and science we are teaching this garbage?[/quote]
Yes, I would be nice if, instead of waisting time with social brainwashing, we would worry more about math scores.

[quote name='carrdero' post='1282255' date='May 27 2007, 05:38 PM']LOL, Apples, pears and grapes exist but I wouldn't exactly call them oranges.

Those issues that you pointed out I would inform children as early as possible. If just to make them aware that these things happen. I am not supporting that school faculties teach kids how to teach kids how to murder, rape or commit adultry but just to teach kids that they exist. I don’t necessarily believe that there is a factor of age anymore. The sooner a child is informed the better. The children of today are not as naïve or immature as they were 20 years ago. They are learning how to right script in kindergarten (I didn’t learn this until the third grade!!) and how to use computers and they are more curious than before. Kids have questions, teachers teach kids.[/quote]

Wrong, wrong, wrong... you couldn't be more wrong.....


[quote name='Budge' post='1282530' date='May 28 2007, 08:54 AM']Homeschooling all the way![/quote]


[quote name='Akalyte' post='1282789' date='May 28 2007, 07:29 PM']Now there is something we agree on! My wife is pregnant too so i'm really thinking about homeschooling.[/quote]
Start reading.

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1282332' date='May 27 2007, 06:20 PM']The Bible in not a required textbook in public school systems. Even if it was part of the curriculum it would be severely outdated.
Regardless of some people's heterosexual preference, homosexuality, bi-sexuality and trans-sexuality happens. It happens everyday, it is happening right now, with no evidence of a sentencing, punishment or judgment from a Higher BEing.[/quote]


How is the Bible outdated?
I thought God was Eternal, hence (yes, I said hence) His Word is Eternal.
You know, "one size(word) fits all."

No evidence ?
Sodom and Gomorrah anyone?

Edited May 29, 2007 by ofpheritup

[carrdero]

[quote name='SJP' post='1283246' date='May 29 2007, 08:15 AM']Well what is your standard of proof when it comes to questions of morality. Are you talking about scientifically verifiable "proofs", because if that's the case, I can't think of any moral norms that can be "proven".

So what is your standard of proof?[/quote]
A difficult question that I think no one human should have to answer for everyone. I do not believe that there is any scientific method to measure morality so we would most likely have to rely on our own personal principles, understanding and/or experiences in the way that kindness individually presents and/or expresses itself to us. In the example of homosexuals, bisexuals and trans-sexuals there is no evidence that has been offered or compiled to/by/for me to suggest that these sexual preferences are inherently evil or entirely incorrect even when they are compared to the practice of heterosexuality.

[quote]SJP writes: What if there are people who do find joy in such activities, who are you to deny them.[/quote]
I do not possess the authority or occupy a position to deny or judge these individuals but I am fully aware that there are officials appropriately designated for such purposes.