Kindergartners To Be Taught Homosexuality, Bisexuality, And Transsexu

[carrdero]

[quote]jckinsman wites: I'am so sorry,I did not want to quote so much and have eveyone read all the distortion again. Although A little part of me would like it if you did though. I wish that others on PM would realize that this topic is key to what Christ has taught us about the sanctity of all of humanity.

It is the one thing that Our Lord Holds most sacred and Holy,The act by which HE creates a human being, able to love and serve him. I know that we grow weary listening to the endless garbage,with little thought. Ask yourselves, What better to defend at its core,then the sanctity of marriage and the Sacredness of the act. Keeping it as pure and Holy as possible in this world. These are the people leading the next generation down the wide road of "go ahead and do it,if it feels good"
Do you hear what she is saying? Read it over again,if you are unsure![/quote]This is not a defense or a rebuttal, it is a fanatical soliloquy.

[quote]jckinsman wites: They are "grooming" our children for their perverted behavior.[/quote]
(Post 157) 7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

Homosexuals, bi-sexuals, transexuals are coming from some where. Sometimes even from religious parents. No one can stop it no one can you cure it.

[quote]jckinsman wites: How did a intercourse between a man and woman,switch to Rape! [/quote]The moment you decided to introduce your opinion of what is Natural and what is Unnatural to this conversation.

[quote]jckinsman wites: So many contradictions, my mind is going a million miles an hour.
Did you actually hear the part about Homosexuality is a choosen behavior! Wow, thats news to me! I thought thay were born that way![/quote]

I have never met a child who has openly admitted to me that they wanted to have sex with another person of the same gender or who wanted to participate in a ménage a trois or wanted to have an operation to change their sex. Have you? It is a choice made at some time.

[quote]jckinsman wites: I wonder what stops them from having sex with their Dogs???? I mean If they have loving feelings toward their dog, why not? ( I think that there's a name for that!) Hum???? Yah, that would be wrong, but the thought was there and the feeling was also. Hummmm????? Why then is it wrong??? Oh that's right! It's an animal! Yes, very wrong! So Sex with animals is wrong, right???? EVEN IF YOU WANT TO.Right?(KEY NOTATION HERE
Can we agree on that, or maybe you do think its okay,you have mentioned two or three people would be okay. Maybe its okay if the Dog is involved too????? Only under the context of "LOVE" and "self expression "though [/quote]Why stop there, let us drop the practice of petting or physically interacting with our pets’ altogether? When our cat rubs up against our legs from now on we will all step aside to avoid further contact, this way we are not tempted to think anymore impure thoughts. Why should I ruin my chance of ever getting to heaven by showing affection or love to any animal?

[quote]jckinsman wites: My point ,I think you can Grasp quite Clearly. Just Because there's a thought process, does not make it a Good or Right thought process. What if the thought was of a small child??? What is the difference?
There is no limits to your way of thinking! No morals! No standards! And your mind is can be endless! Where is the self control? YOU may have the self control to stop at certain sick behaviors, but does the next guy and the next and then, when is it OUR problem????[/quote]
You almost sound hopeful here as if you cannot wait for it to become your problem.

[quote]jckinsman wites:I'll tell you when, When they want to teach MY CHILD the garbage that you spew! (ORIGINAL THREAD TOPIC)[/quote]It’s not going to go away, best if we try to understand why these preferences exist and how we will live with them.

[quote]jckinsman wites: Your right animals do not march off to war BRAVE MEN AND WOMAN SERVING IN OUR VOLUNTARY MILITARY DO![/quote]

Would you lend or agree to such a compliment towards the other army, I wonder.

[carrdero]

[quote name='jckinsman' post='1290549' date='Jun 7 2007, 07:35 PM']I can Love my nephew, because he has been made in the image and likeness of our Lord! I do not have to LOVE the sin that he commits! When the Blind man Knows the door is there he, does not make the same mistake twice. Go and SIN no more! JC[/quote]
And how will you differentiate your love from the sin and the sinner? Provide me with some examples? What acts of love would you not contribute towards this relationship if the person were not homosexual?

[Guest St.Lucy4eva]

I think that we should just all pray for our Nation and its' leaders to conform their hearts to God.
Like for example when people ask (in some cases, don't read this wrong) where is God? Why isn't he doing something about this? He is, he sent us. Just some food for thought.

[carrdero]

[quote]SJP writes: That's terrible[/quote]No, that’s reality.

[quote] SJP writes: and we should keep all people who have been through such situations in our prayers.[/quote]
Prayer won’t return that “precious gift” to parents.

[quote]SJP writes: Can please show me where I stated that people who could not conceive children are "unholy".

SJP writes: When you realize that it is through sex that a new life is brought into the world, and thus the sexual act is sacred in and of itself, you appreciate sex for the gift that it is.[/quote]Is not the opposite of sacred unholy (at least that is what my dictionary defines it as)? Did you not respond that the sacredness of sex is to bring a new life into this world? If a couple can’t conceive then by your definition and reasoning of sex they do not have the “gift” and therefore they should not be having sex and if they do, they are committing something “not sacred”. You may correct me if I am mistaken.

[quote]SJP writes: It cannot be undertaken strictly for pleasure or for lust, it's too important.

carrdero writes: Important? Possibly. Overrated? Definitely.

SJP writes: I'm sorry you feel that way.[/quote]
I’m not a great admirer of sex. It’s messy and it takes to long (and that’s if you do it correctly). It does challenge me to express my love in a less physical and more spiritual way though.

[quote]SJP writes: Well what evidence do you have to support your view that homosexuality is not immoral?[/quote]One reason would be that it is not illegal. I am sure that if it is was really immoral, there would be laws implemented to halt these practices, even by God’s standards. Another reason may be all the wonderful people that I know who do practice such sexual preferences. These people are not evil or are they sinners nor or they immoral, they are just like you and me except that they have different ways to express their love for other people.

[quote]SJP writes:Well by that line of reasoning, there is no truth when it comes to morality. There can be no Truth.[/quote]
I would view homosexuality, bi-sexuality and trans-sexual more as a Personal Truth (for example, he/she is homosexual, you and me are not). I do not believe that there is a Universal Truth for sex, the laws of sexual Nature are too easy to hack.

[SJP]

[quote]SJP writes: That's terrible
carrdero writes: No, that’s reality.[/quote]The two are not mutually exclusive, terrible experiences are a part of reality.


[quote]Prayer won’t return that “precious gift” to parents.[/quote]

You're right, but it certainly might help them find meaning in their suffering. It might strengthen their bond with one another and with God.



[quote]carrdeo writes: Is not the opposite of sacred unholy [/quote]yes
[quote]carrdero writes: Did you not respond that the sacredness of sex is to bring a new life into this world?[/quote] Yes, that is one aspect of why sex is sacred, sex is also sacred because of the strengthening of the bond that occurs between Husband and Wife. See post #170.
[quote]carrdero writes: If a couple can’t conceive then by your definition and reasoning of sex they do not have the “gift” and therefore they should not be having sex. [/quote]No, there is a difference between a couple who cannot conceive and a couple who actively pursue measures to render the sex act sterile. In the first case, both the procreative aspect of sex and the unitive aspect of sex can be present. The couple can be open to life despite the fact that at that particular time they are not able to conceive. Thus the two purposes of sex are still present, the couple is open to procreation and they are strengthening their union.

[quote]SJP writes: Well what evidence do you have to support your view that homosexuality is not immoral?[/quote]

[quote]carrdero writes: One reason would be that it is not illegal. I am sure that if it is was really immoral, there would be laws implemented to halt these practices, even by God’s standards. Another reason may be all the wonderful people that I know who do practice such sexual preferences. These people are not evil or are they sinners nor or they immoral, they are just like you and me except that they have different ways to express their love for other people. [/quote]So when it comes to morality might makes right? Majority rules? But earlier you stated: [quote]My standards for what is moral or immoral are my own and my not be agreeable to other people.[/quote]
So which is it? Is morality based on group consensus? Or is it based on the whims of the individual? Please clarify.

Furthermore, if questions of morlaity should be left to the individual as you stated earlier [quote]My standards for what is moral or immoral are my own and my not be agreeable to other people[/quote]Then I fail to see how legality [quote] carrdero writes: One reason would be that it is not illegal[/quote] has anything to do with the question of morality. Why would you use the rules and laws of others as evidence to support your own beliefs when you believe that people have to come to their own conclusions about moral issues.

Once again, I fail to see why you make any pronouncements whatsoever about morality. By your own admission, morality should be left up to individauls, so why are you trying to push your views on me?

Edited June 8, 2007 by SJP

[carrdero]

[quote name='St.Lucy4eva' post='1290579' date='Jun 7 2007, 08:56 PM']I think that we should just all pray for our Nation and its' leaders to conform their hearts to God.
Like for example when people ask (in some cases, don't read this wrong) where is God? Why isn't he doing something about this? He is, he sent us. Just some food for thought.[/quote]
I couldn't imagine why GOD would ask humans to do something that GOD could do Himself.

[jckinsman]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1290576' date='Jun 7 2007, 08:50 PM']And how will you differentiate your love from the sin and the sinner? Provide me with some examples? What acts of love would you not contribute towards this relationship if the person were not homosexual?[/quote]
My sister In-law, drinks way to much,(way to much). I love her, I do stuff with her,we eat together,we talk on the phone. She does not want to talk about it. I pray for her. I love her. Yes, her drinking is a problem,do I love her any less????? No way. (Her drinking is not only hurtful it is sinful.) Do you want a list of things I love about my nephew too,there are alot, he is very smart,the U of W sought him out for there nursing program. He used to teach swing dance and would put most to shame. He opened his own studio. He could build a pond in your backyard that would look like a tropical paradise in less then a week,if you asked him. He does pottery and he very good. I love him,he is my family, I do not love the sex he has with his partner.The sex he has with his partner is a sin. What you are saying does not make any sense!......"not contribute....... if he were not homosexual???"
He is though and he makes his own choices. I CAN love the sinner,and hate the sin. Is that not HOW CHRIST SEES ALL OF US! HE loves all of us,he hung on the cross for all of our sins,Or does he have a hard time separating the two,also? JC

[jckinsman]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1290726' date='Jun 8 2007, 02:07 AM']I couldn't imagine why GOD would ask humans to do something that GOD could do Himself.[/quote]
Ya God! so why are we here any way?

ST.LUCY you'll have to forgive our little friend,she's pretty bitter! You just stay sweet, and keep praying! JC

[carrdero]

[quote]SJP writes: The two are not mutually exclusive, terrible experiences are a part of reality.[/quote]Except that I do not view them as “terrible” or “tragedies”. Death is a Natural part of life.

[quote]SJP writes: You're right, but it certainly might help them find meaning in their suffering. It might strengthen their bond with one another and with God.[/quote]

Far be it for me to tell people how to grieve but it may be helpful in knowing how GOD understands (perceives) death.

[quote]SJP writes: So when it comes to morality might makes right? Majority rules? So which is it? Is morality based on group consensus? Or is it based on the whims of the individual? Please clarify.
Then I fail to see how legality has anything to do with the question of morality. Why would you use the rules and laws of others as evidence to support your own beliefs when you believe that people have to come to their own conclusions about moral issues.[/quote]See posts #96, #114.

[quote]SJP writes: Once again, I fail to see why you make any pronouncements whatsoever about morality. By your own admission, morality should be left up to individauls, so why are you trying to push your views on me?[/quote]

Um...because you asked me about them?

Edited June 8, 2007 by carrdero

[carrdero]

[quote name='jckinsman' post='1290731' date='Jun 8 2007, 02:24 AM']My sister In-law, drinks way to much,(way to much). I love her, I do stuff with her,we eat together,we talk on the phone. She does not want to talk about it. I pray for her. I love her. Yes, her drinking is a problem,do I love her any less????? No way. (Her drinking is not only hurtful it is sinful.) Do you want a list of things I love about my nephew too,there are alot, he is very smart,the U of W sought him out for there nursing program. He used to teach swing dance and would put most to shame. He opened his own studio. He could build a pond in your backyard that would look like a tropical paradise in less then a week,if you asked him. He does pottery and he very good. I love him,he is my family, I do not love the sex he has with his partner.The sex he has with his partner is a sin. What you are saying does not make any sense!......"not contribute....... if he were not homosexual???"
He is though and he makes his own choices. I CAN love the sinner,and hate the sin. [color="#FF0000"]Is that not HOW CHRIST SEES ALL OF US! [/color]HE loves all of us,he hung on the cross for all of our sins,Or does he have a hard time separating the two,also? JC[/quote]
I was curious and needed the clarification, it certainly does sound you have a firm understanding about love with both your sister-in-law and nephew.[color="#FF0000"] I cannot verify Christ's Love but now I can certainly verify jckinsman's.[/color]

Edited June 8, 2007 by carrdero

[SJP]

SJP writes: So when it comes to morality might makes right? Majority rules? So which is it? Is morality based on group consensus? Or is it based on the whims of the individual? Please clarify.
I fail to see how legality has anything to do with the question of morality. Why would you use the rules and laws of others as evidence to support your own beliefs when you believe that people have to come to their own conclusions about moral issues.

[quote]post #96,
carrdero writes: One of the easiest lessons to learn in this physical existence is that people will do whatever they want to do. If someone wants to shoot me for my possessions they will do so with absolutely no regard or fear for God, the law or society.

post #114.
carrdero writes: What I believe is that we are the only ones to make these decisions about ourselves.[/quote]OK, so you believe that questions of morality must be left to the individual. So why do you cite government laws as evidence for your beliefs?

[quote]SJP writes: Well what evidence do you have to support your view that homosexuality is not immoral?
carrdero writes: One reason would be that it is not illegal. I am sure that if it is was really immoral, there would be laws implemented to halt these practices.[/quote]

[jckinsman]

[quote name='SJP' post='1290791' date='Jun 8 2007, 09:29 AM']SJP writes: So when it comes to morality might makes right? Majority rules? So which is it? Is morality based on group consensus? Or is it based on the whims of the individual? Please clarify.
I fail to see how legality has anything to do with the question of morality. Why would you use the rules and laws of others as evidence to support your own beliefs when you believe that people have to come to their own conclusions about moral issues.

OK, so you believe that questions of morality must be left to the individual. So why do you cite government laws as evidence for your beliefs?[/quote]
Very good point!

[carrdero]

[quote name='SJP' post='1290791' date='Jun 8 2007, 09:29 AM']SJP writes: So when it comes to morality might makes right? Majority rules? So which is it? Is morality based on group consensus? Or is it based on the whims of the individual? Please clarify.
I fail to see how legality has anything to do with the question of morality. Why would you use the rules and laws of others as evidence to support your own beliefs when you believe that people have to come to their own conclusions about moral issues.

OK, so you believe that questions of morality must be left to the individual. So why do you cite government laws as evidence for your beliefs?[/quote]
I don't, I cite them for evidence against yours. Do you not believe that if homosexuality was so corrupt, so immoral, so much of a threat against this nation that are own self-appointed government would let this wicked practice go on for another day without any serious legal reprucussions? I don't believe homosexuality to be moral or immoral, I believe it to be a right. I believe that this is how GOD and our government view it as well.

[mortify]

Disorders of any kind can't be "right."

People who suffer from them are not be valued less or held in contempt, we live in a culture that encourages pursuit of pleasure and holds disdain for any meaningful existence, so how can we be surprised that our government, which is penetrated by the culture, to think differently?

And we know God's view on the matter, He's quite clear on it.

[Semalsia]

[quote name='SJP']How can two gay people procreate?[/quote]

They can. It doesn't matter how.