Sojourner Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1282679' date='May 28 2007, 03:24 PM']One thing I want the Catholics to know here, is when any church leaders, I MEAN [b]ANY[/b] claim to be SUCCESSORS TO THE APOSTLES, I am out of there. That includes ALL OF THESE GUYS... [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic[/url] If Apostolic is in the name, Im not showing up. 2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.[/quote] Way to use verses in context ... (I'm being sarcastic, just so you know ... round these parts, we don't base our faith on 14-word sentences all by their lonesomes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Terra Firma' post='1282683' date='May 28 2007, 04:30 PM']Way to use verses in context ... (I'm being sarcastic, just so you know ... round these parts, we don't base our faith on 14-word sentences all by their lonesomes).[/quote] Is that one of the few verses your church leader taught you to use to disprove the Catholic Church? I would actually read your selected few bible verses in their context to really understand the meaning. You obviously do not know what the Bible says do you? Edited May 28, 2007 by Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 [quote name='Anthony' post='1282693' date='May 28 2007, 04:42 PM']Is that one of the few verses your church leader taught you to use to disprove the Catholic Church? I would actually read your selected few bible verses in their context to really understand the meaning. You obviously do not know what the Bible says do you?[/quote] If she did, she wouldn't butcher the second (really the first) commandment in her sig.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 (edited) Even for Protestants there are certain rules in place to interpret scripture (at least in some denominations). One of the ones I heard most often is "Scripture interprets Scripture." (As a Catholic, I'd amend that to "Scripture + Tradition interpret Scripture"). Taking a verse not only out of its immediate context but also out of context of the rest of the Bible is a sure way to come to mistaken conclusions. In other words, God doesn't reveal himself to us in sound bites. Edited May 28, 2007 by Terra Firma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 [quote name='Terra Firma' post='1282699' date='May 28 2007, 03:03 PM']Even for Protestants there are certain rules in place to interpret scripture (at least in some denominations). One of the ones I heard most often is "Scripture interprets Scripture." (As a Catholic, I'd amend that to "Scripture + Tradition interpret Scripture"). [b]Taking a verse not only out of its immediate context but also out of context of the rest of the Bible is a sure way to come to mistaken conclusions.[/b] In other words, God doesn't reveal himself to us in sound bites. [/quote] A good Protestant theologian will look at the cultural and textual context of verses and look at what it says in light of the rest of his knowledge of scripture. What they don't do is use extrabiblical sources to tell them what a verse is supposed to mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 (edited) Dang... I come to this thread and find Groo has already laid down the law. I'll keep my eye on this though. Good job, there Groo. And please, everybody, take this thread seriously. Edited May 28, 2007 by Sacred Music Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 [quote name='Light and Truth' post='1282706' date='May 28 2007, 04:41 PM']A good Protestant theologian will look at the cultural and textual context of verses and look at what it says in light of the rest of his knowledge of scripture. What they don't do is use extrabiblical sources to tell them what a verse is supposed to mean.[/quote] well, that's not entirely true ... several Protestant ministers I've read will cite to other theologians as sources to aid in interpretation. There is extrabiblical evidence weighed in Protestant interpretation, but it draws from a much narrower band of history, and is weighted less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodChaser Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1282657' date='May 28 2007, 02:15 PM']Light and Truth, I have not argued at all for the correctness of any particular position; instead, I have asked GodChaser to support his own claims, which he appears incapable of doing. God bless, Todd[/quote] All I can say, Apotheoun, is Scripture clearly states - no interpretation required, that the Roman Catholic Account for History is completely wrong. If it doesn't fit into the Bible, than it is a lie from the devil. All you did, to refute my arguement is say, that is what someone said in the 1600s. That's not what we say. You're wrong. You're owned. What a debate. I was so intellectually stimulated that I can't refute your logic. Oh yeah, that's because you had no arguement. Prove your point that the Roman Catholic Version of history is correct! Prove to me that Babylon is Jeruselem or Rome! Edited May 29, 2007 by GodChaser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Scripture, like all written texts, requires interpretation, and you still have not given any reason for your spurious symbolic division of the statements about the seasonal "rains" in [i]Joel[/i]. In fact, you have not yet even presented a coherent argument in support of your position. Moreover, your view of history, which happens to be the fanciful creation of 19th century Protestant authors, is an innovation, and has no support in any of the Church Fathers. Thus, until you prove your interpretation is correct there is no reason for me to accept it as true. Besides, you still have not specified by what authority you have made these novel symbolic distinctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 [quote name='GodChaser' post='1282870' date='May 28 2007, 07:38 PM']What a debate. I was so intellectually stimulated that I can't refute your logic. Oh yeah, that's because you had no arguement.[/quote] Your subjective assertions about the meaning of various scriptural texts is not an argument. Prove what you say is true, i.e., give evidence that supports your position. By the way, merely quoting longer excerpts of scripture is not an argument. P.S. - I have not advocated any particular interpretation of scripture yet (Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant), because I am waiting for you to give some kind of support for your interpretation of the text of [i]Joel[/i]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodChaser Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1282955' date='May 28 2007, 09:20 PM']Your subjective assertions about the meaning of various scriptural texts is not an argument. Prove what you say is true, i.e., give evidence that supports your position. By the way, merely quoting longer excerpts of scripture is not an argument. P.S. - I have not advocated any particular interpretation of scripture yet (Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant), because I am waiting for you to give some kind of support for your interpretation of the text of [i]Joel[/i].[/quote] Truth will take care of itself Apotheoun. On my authority, the only authority is the Bible. I'm only a student of it, and I have no authority, for it is above even the name of Jesus Christ. You'll love jumping up and down on this one, because I just said I have no authority, and you will say, ah ha, that's right, only the Pope has the authority. Sadly, he is subjected to the authority of the Bible as well, and is below it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I see. So you cannot prove your position. Interesting. I must admit that I am disappointed by your inability to even formulate a coherent argument in support of your novel interpretations of [i]Joel[/i]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 [quote name='GodChaser' post='1283062' date='May 28 2007, 08:56 PM']On my authority, the only authority is the Bible.[/quote] Wow, and here I thought that God was the only authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydigit Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 [quote name='GodChaser' post='1283062' date='May 28 2007, 08:56 PM']On my authority, the only authority is the Bible.[/quote] [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1283087' date='May 28 2007, 09:03 PM']Wow, and here I thought that God was the only authority.[/quote] HEIL! [img]http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/images/smilies/hitler.gif[/img] Matthew 16:18, the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 [quote name='GodChaser' post='1283062' date='May 28 2007, 08:56 PM']On my authority . . . and I have no authority.[/quote] Clearly, this explains why you cannot formulate an argument. [quote name='GodChaser' post='1283062' date='May 28 2007, 08:56 PM']. . . the only authority is the Bible . . . for it is above even the name of Jesus Christ.[/quote] Jesus Christ is the substantial Word of God, and the Bible is not. Bibliolatry is just another form of idolatry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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