The Bush Administration Responsible For Sunni Extremists?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1282998' date='May 28 2007, 09:32 PM']I wasn't hurt.[/quote]

My apologizes ether way... however still proved nothing. I read the article when you posted, it same as the video does not offer concrete proof of the President supporting terrorist.

Edited May 29, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1283011' date='May 28 2007, 09:38 PM']I just finished reading the article, and it is well written, but it is hardly "proof" that the Bush administration is causing Islamo-fascist terrorism. Islam is the real problem, not the Bush administration.[/quote]
I think the allegation is not that they cause it, but rather that they fund it.

[catholicinsd]

All religious extremists, especially muslims ones are as dumb as the rocks the desert of their back yard.

[Apotheoun]

[i]Allegation[/i] is the key word. Moreover, the concluding remarks by Senator Ron Wyden are sad to say the least, since Congress has oversight (control) over how funds are spent. Clearly, if the Senator thinks that the Bush administration is doing something wrong, he -- and the other members of the Intelligence committee -- should act.

[Sojourner]

It is indeed. Nothing is, at this point, proven. Or even formally alleged.

However, I still wouldn't blow all this off as being one man's opinion.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1283019' date='May 28 2007, 08:41 PM']All religious extremists, especially muslims ones are as dumb as the rocks the desert of their back yard.[/quote]
The problem is that Islam is extremist in its theology itself (read the Qu'ran and the Hadith). Non-Muslims have no rights under Sharia law, and the Islamic understanding of martyrdom, which involves killing non-Muslims, is not martyrdom in the Christian (or even the Jewish) sense of the word.

[KnightofChrist]

Right now, thats all it is... One mans opinion.

Edited May 29, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[Sojourner]

Let's note for the record that from time to time large government scandals were first brought to light in investigative reporting pieces.

Watergate, anyone?

[Apotheoun]

Time will tell. Nevertheless, Islam is the problem, not the Bush administration, and not even the pacifistic Democrats in Congress -- although lack of resolve in the face of Islamic aggression has always led to dire consequences for non-Muslims.

Anyone even remotely familiar with history is aware of the fact that Muslims have been at war with the non-Islamic world since the foundation of the Islamic religion in the 7th century, and the sooner that Americans (and other non-Muslim peoples) recognize this fact, the better.

[Sojourner]

Actually I think that is one of our biggest weaknesses in dealing with the Middle East -- we have no sense of the history there. I think that really hampers us both in war and in negotiations.

[Apotheoun]

We have entered a World War, and we better win it. In fact, winning this war is even more important than winning the war fought against Nazism.

[Sojourner]

As much as I hate the way we got into this, I have a sneaking suspicion that we will not be getting out anytime soon, much as I would like us to. I have a feeling things will get much worse before they get better.

[Apotheoun]

Iraq is simply a minor skirmish, a battle in a greater war. That said, the war that we are presently fighting is the continuation of the 1400 year long conflict between the Islamic world (i.e., what Muslims call the "Dar al-Islam") and the non-Muslim world (i.e., what Muslims call the "Dar al-Harb"). We better win or we will see St. Peter's turned into a Mosque, just as the Byzantines saw Hagia Sophia desecrated by the Muslims.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1283011' date='May 28 2007, 08:38 PM']I just finished reading the article, and it is well written, but it is hardly "proof" that the Bush administration is causing Islamo-fascist terrorism. Islam is the real problem, not the Bush administration.[/quote]

There's a substantial amount of proof, but even aside from this article, this isn't the first time that this has happened. Bush 41's administration funded Islamic extremists too.


[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1283017' date='May 28 2007, 08:39 PM']I think the allegation is not that they cause it, but rather that they fund it.[/quote]

That's right, they funded it.

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1283031' date='May 28 2007, 08:47 PM']The problem is that Islam is extremist in its theology itself (read the Qu'ran and the Hadith). Non-Muslims have no rights under Sharia law, and the Islamic understanding of martyrdom, which involves killing non-Muslims, is not martyrdom in the Christian (or even the Jewish) sense of the word.[/quote]

This is completely false, but if you'd like to attempt to prove me wrong, give some proof [Hadeeths, Quranic Surahs, etc]


[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1283060' date='May 28 2007, 08:56 PM']Time will tell. Nevertheless, Islam is the problem, not the Bush administration, and not even the pacifistic Democrats in Congress -- although lack of resolve in the face of Islamic aggression has always led to dire consequences for non-Muslims.

Anyone even remotely familiar with history is aware of the fact that Muslims have been at war with the non-Islamic world since the foundation of the Islamic religion in the 7th century, and the sooner that Americans (and other non-Muslim peoples) recognize this fact, the better.[/quote]

Obviously you're not very familiar with the religion of Islam, as you falsely represent Islam over and over again. I'd stated several times that we have a different thread dedicated to Islam and Muslims but since you won't discuss it there, let's discuss it here... give proof to your claims.


[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1283090' date='May 28 2007, 09:05 PM']Actually I think that is one of our biggest weaknesses in dealing with the Middle East -- we have no sense of the history there. I think that really hampers us both in war and in negotiations.[/quote]

That's right, no sense of history or culture.

Reza

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1283097' date='May 28 2007, 09:09 PM']We have entered a World War, and we better win it. In fact, winning this war is even more important than winning the war fought against Nazism.[/quote]

We have "entered"? That's quite an understatement, we funded and trained the so called "extremists" that we're supposedly fighting. How can you win a war with a corrupt moral code? We funded Saddam for over a decade with money, WMD, etc. for the strict purpose of killing Iranians during the imposed war. We funded and trained Al-Quida and the Taliban also, in their fight against Russia and we even funded Al-Islamic Brotherhood in their fight against the secular leaders of Egypt, which back-fired and resulted in the killing of Coptic Christians. How is this "winning"?


[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1283099' date='May 28 2007, 09:13 PM']As much as I hate the way we got into this, I have a sneaking suspicion that we will not be getting out anytime soon, much as I would like us to. I have a feeling things will get much worse before they get better.[/quote]

Its not a war of winning or losing, as much as people would like to marginalize it as such.


[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1283112' date='May 28 2007, 09:23 PM']Iraq is simply a minor skirmish, a battle in a greater war. That said, the war that we are presently fighting is the continuation of the 1400 year long conflict between the Islamic world (i.e., what Muslims call the "Dar al-Islam") and the non-Muslim world (i.e., what Muslims call the "Dar al-Harb"). We better win or we will see St. Peter's turned into a Mosque, just as the Byzantines saw Hagia Sophia desecrated by the Muslims.[/quote]

A minor "skirmish"? We're getting wasted in Iraq on every angle. Have you checked the death tolls? This isn't a "skirmish", this is a civil war battle that is spinning out of control. It's ridiculous to say that it's a 1400 year long conflict between Muslims and Non-Muslims, Muslims have helped Christians throughout history also, just so you know. Prior to the US Funding Al-Islamic Brotherhood, there was a secular society in which Christians and Muslims were living peacefully amongst each other with no conflicts. Muslim helped save the Copts from being annihilated during the crusades. A friend of mine's mother [who is quite an elderly woman] remembers back in Palestine, prior to the creation of the secular state of Isreal, when Jews, Muslms and Christians all live in harmony, and Muslims used to baby sit her. Even right now in Palestine, Christians and Muslims get along very well.

Several Churches were on the brink of being burned to the ground [about a year ago] by the secular Fateh, and it was Hamas [those "radicals" that you seem to be talking about] that used their soldiers to protect the Christian Churches from being burnt to the ground. That's right, Hamas, the same group that you seem to be pointing a dirty finger at, while shaking your head.

Reza