Budge Vs. Moses And The Ten Commandments

[Katholikos]

[b][u]The First Commandment of God, according to Moses:[/u][/b]

“I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

“Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner or likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep my commandments.”

[b][u]The Second Commandment of God, according to Moses:[/u][/b]

“Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain.”

Source: [i]Pathways through the Bible[/i], Mortimer J. Cohen, The Jewish Publication Society of America

[b][u]Here’s the Second Commandment of God, according to Budge, as stated in her signature:[/u][/b]

"THE SECOND COMMANDMENT...{where is it in the Catholic 10?}
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them."

Did God forbid the making the likenesses of things “in heaven above, on the earth beneath, or below the earth.” and then tell Moses to violate His own First Commandment? Uh uh.

Numbers 21:8 – “[God said to Moses] ‘Make a seraph and mount it on a pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it, he will recover.’ Moses accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it in a pole . . .” Are there serpents on earth? Uh huh.

God didn't forbid the [u]making[/u] of likenesses of anything in heaven, on earth, or under the earth in His [b][size=3][color="#FF0000"]First[/color][/size] [/b]Commandment, but the [u]worship[/u] of them.

Protestants split the First Commandment and renumbered the other Commandments in order to zing the Catholics for their "graven images." Numbers were not applied to the Commandments for many centuries, but they were understood in Judaism as the first, the second, the third, etc., and were grouped accordingly.

[b]Pathways[/b] was used for my class on the Jewish Scriptures at Arizona State University, taught by Rabbi Teitelbaum of blessed memory.

How many times have we argued this on the phatmass phorum? At least a jillion.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Dr. Scott Hahn points out another interesting tidbit to back up the Catholic numbering. The 5th-7th correspond to the 8th-10th.

"You shall not kill" goes with "you shall not lie" because both attack people.

"You shall not commit adultery" goes with "you shall not covet your neighbor's wife" because both deal with lust.

"You shall not steal" goes with "you shall not covet your neighbor's goods" because both deal with property.

The 5th-7th refer to graver versions of the 8th-10th. God's point is that "you shall not do these really bad things...oh, and that also means you shall not do the smaller forms of them, expecting to get off the hook for doing 'lesser sins.'"

If we take the Protestant numbering, they loose the correlation and look much less interrelated, thus making them appear far more as a mere body of laws with no rationale behind them, rather than a system of laws centered on love.

God bless,

Micah

[Groo the Wanderer]

Not to mention they jam the 9th and 10th together, lumping women in with property. How rude and demeaning!

[Paddington]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1282001' date='May 27 2007, 02:45 AM']Not to mention they jam the 9th and 10th together, lumping women in with property. How rude and demeaning![/quote]

Groo,

Is this a feminist statement? Sorry if it wasn't. But, it sounds like one. If you take into account that they "lump" men just as they do to women and the whole concept of throwing people a bone, then you can avoid calling it "rude and demeaning." You could just say that it is wrong.

Peace,
Paddington

[carrdero]

[b]Budge Vs. Moses And The Ten Commandments[/b]
Did the betting window close already?

[Katholikos]

Budge, in her typical fashion, is ignoring this thread.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1282027' date='May 27 2007, 03:48 AM']Groo,

Is this a feminist statement? Sorry if it wasn't. But, it sounds like one. If you take into account that they "lump" men just as they do to women and the whole concept of throwing people a bone, then you can avoid calling it "rude and demeaning." You could just say that it is wrong.

Peace,
Paddington[/quote]


Nope - can't stand feminazism. Just an observation. God saw fit to make a distinction between women and property in the commandments. I do not think it is right to squish them together - I have more respect for the greatest and lovliest of God's creations :wink:

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1282214' date='May 27 2007, 05:07 PM'][b]Budge Vs. Moses And The Ten Commandments[/b]
Did the betting window close already?[/quote]

[jeffpugh]

In retrospect, maybe I shouldn't be laughing. I should be giving Budge a chance to respond nicely. I do hope she's going to be more civil. Sorry to all those whose feelings my be affected, that includes Ms Budge.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1282572' date='May 28 2007, 10:11 AM']Budge, in her typical fashion, is ignoring this thread.[/quote]
Nah, she's just too busy. I'm sure she's busy as we speak searching the dark corners of the internet, digging up more photos of a Pope/cardinal/Mother Theresa with a Hindu/Muslim/Native American/African/UN official/Padre Pio cookie, or other such damning evidence against the Catholic Faith.

(btw - I'm placing my bet on Moses and the Commandments.)

Edited May 29, 2007 by Socrates

[Budge]

[quote]I'm sure she's busy as we speak searching the dark corners of the internet, digging up more photos of a Pope/cardinal/Mother Theresa with a Hindu/Muslim/Native American/African/UN official/Padre Pio cookie, or other such damning evidence against the Catholic Faith.[/quote]

Hey the pics arent THAT hard to find...



as for the topic of this thread, didnt we go over this before....{Im not really sure what youre asking SMM}

Edited May 29, 2007 by Budge

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Budge' post='1282816' date='May 28 2007, 08:24 PM']as for the topic of this thread, didnt we go over this before....[/quote]

Dear Budge:

Yes, we've been over the fact that you misread, misunderstand, misinterpret, and misquote the Bible many times.

On the subject of the Commandments, the score is Moses 10, Budge zero.

Just wondering if you plan to take your anti-Catholic bigotry with you into heaven? I don't think so. "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

Likos

[jeffpugh]

What I'm saying Budge is that I want some clean dialogue this time around. I respect you as a person, and I respect that you come here time and time again despite the fact you don't like what we have to say.

[Katholikos]

Bump for Budge.

[jeffpugh]

Bump for Budge