Poverty, Lay Religious Communities And Other Thoughts...

[farglefeezlebut]

I’m not sure where to begin but here goes.

I think I am called to marriage and motherhood, although I don’t know if I have met the right man yet. I had a two and a half year relationship with an agnostic guy. We cared about each other very much but looking back I don’t think that it was my vocation. There were problems which I don’t want to go into and he broke up with me. I was obviously very upset because at the time I thought that we would get married. For a while I was very lost and I wondered whether I was “good enough” for any vocation. However, I have realised that I am probably called to marriage, although I want to visit lots of convents because nuns have so much to teach. A very wise friend of mine who is going to be a nun also told me she thought I was called to marriage.

There is one thing that is puzzling me though. Despite being anti-materialistic in my beliefs, I am worryingly materialistic in my behaviour. I read the story of the rich young man and it really, really bothers me (in the same way, I suppose, that it bothered the rich young man.) I know that the command: ‘If you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me,’ is a particular command, but just because it’s particular doesn’t mean that it doesn’t apply to me. Why shouldn’t I be one of those particular people to whom it applies? If I didn’t think it applied to me, I wouldn’t be so disturbed by the parable. I can’t think of any reason why I would think it applies to me other than its being true.I don’t want it to apply to me.

I feel no call to be a nun. Part of me wishes I did. But I think I feel a call to holy poverty. So, how can it work?

I know there are lay religious communities where married people can live. I’m very indecisive about what kind of spirituality I like - I spend a weekend with the Dominicans and I think I like them best; I read the writings of a Carmelite and I think I like them best; I watch a documentary about Benedictines and I think I like them best; I watch another documentary about Franciscans and I think I like them best; I spend time at a Jesuit retreat centre and I think I like them best…

I’m not sure if all/any lay religious communities vow poverty (I imagine it would be more complicated in practical terms with married people, especially families with children.)I don’t know that much about lay religious communities, but the idea of living in a community really appeals to me (and this isn’t because I have some false notion of it being all sugary-sweet and tension free. Like a lot of Catholics, I come from a big family. I know what people can be like when you’re crammed together. It is not always easy, but it is worth it.) Also, I was reading Acts, and something about this passage really struck a chord with me:

32 Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common. 33With great power the apostles gave their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. 34There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. 35They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. 36There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means ‘son of encouragement’). 37He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

Then I read this next passage and I was so frightened:


But a man named Ananias, with the consent of his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property; 2with his wife’s knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds, and brought only a part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3‘Ananias,’ Peter asked, ‘why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? 4While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, were not the proceeds at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You did not lie to us to men');" onmouseout="return nd();" href="java script:void(0);"* but to God!’ 5Now when Ananias heard these words, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard of it. 6The young men came and wrapped up his body,* then carried him out and buried him.
7 After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8Peter said to her, ‘Tell me whether you and your husband sold the land for such and such a price.’ And she said, ‘Yes, that was the price.’ 9Then Peter said to her, ‘How is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.’ 10Immediately she fell down at his feet and died. When the young men came in they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11And great fear seized the whole church and all who heard of these things.

When I say I was frightened, I wasn’t so much frightened that I would drop dead, but frightened of my own stubbornness, weakness, greed, excuse-making, deception etc.

Sometimes I wish they had Catholic Amish.

I have more to write, but I have to go.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

It's going to be difficult to reply to this, given that I know you in real life and think you are one of the least materialistic people I know. One of the things that I have always admired most about you is the way your family shares everything so cheerfully. You might not realise it, but you are good at sharing. In calling you to live in greater poverty, I don't think God is giving you a hefty smack and saying, "You greedy girl, start being more generous!" I think He is saying, "I have planted a seed for great generosity in you. We will cultivate that and go from one seed to a garden."

Thinking about it as an invitation rather than as a terrifying command is not only more in keeping with the Gospel-spirit, but also much more helpful in terms of vocational discernment. We go where we are invited, not where we are dragged.

Also remember that joining a lay community that is rooted in one particular spirituality does not mean that you are expressly forbidden to draw on other charisms for solace and inspiration. The Church doesn't seek to put us all in neatly labelled boxes. As you are feeling such a strong call to be less materialistic, I think you should look closely at the Franciscan way. St Francis taught that his followers were to be 'poor in fact but rich in spirit', and the Franciscan spirituality can be expressed very simply through the words 'my God, my all'. This holds the essence of what you are trying to achieve. As you got on so well at the Jesuit retreat, you could apply the Spiritual Exercises of St Ignatius to your journey - the Ignatian reverence for the imagination, for immersing yourself in the Gospels, will give those passages you quoted even more relevance. The Benedictine emphasis on good harmony and balance between work and prayer ('ora et labora') will give you a compass to travel by if you are tempted to buy more than you need. But ultimately I think that your home is with the Franciscans.

[AccountDeleted]

How wonderful that you are so in tune with Our Lord. I am sure He is very pleased that you only want to please Him. CA always gives good advice - listen to her.

[sismaria]

I feel no call to be a nun. Part of me wishes I did. But I think I feel a call to holy poverty. So, how can it work?


It is not surprising that you feel a call to holy poverty. I think it is surprising that more lay people do not. There is actually a beautiful social teaching of our Church, called the Universal Destination of Goods, that is almost unknown to most Catholics. I think this is because most priests who do our preaching are diocesan priests and they do not take a vow of poverty, nor do they understand their call, and the call of every Catholic to a holy simplicity of life. The teaching of the universal destination of goods is that the goods of this earth are meant for all and not only for those who have earned them. When God entrusts property to a person--money and other goods--He obliges "their possessors to employ them in ways that will benefit the greatest number. Those who hold goods for use and consumption should use them with moderation, reserving the better part for guests, for the poor and the sick." (Catechism, 2405) Each of us is called to live a simple life so that we have more to share with the poor.

I came upon a passage in a book by Cardinal Wyszynski, mentor of Pope John Paul II, who expressed the idea the best of anyone I have ever read: "How far we have moved today from this sympathy with the poor!...In the encyclical Divini Redemptoris, Pius XI reminds us of the duty of limiting one's own needs, of returning to more frugal conditions of life, so as only to acquire the means of giving social help. To forget oneseelf for love of one's neighbor, to limit luxury, so shocking side by side with poverty: this is the new task. Our life should be simplified, set free from the superfluity of things and artificial needs that are swamping us."

How sad it is that we Catholics hear only rarely the message that we ought to live frugally so that we have more to share with the poor. I must admit I am even scandalized when I hear of congregations of religious raising millions and millions of dollars for a Motherhouse, when there are so many starving people in the world. I have read that 15 million children die of starvation every year. How tragic! And most of us spend so much on ourselves.

I don't think you have to join a lay community to live a simple life. If you make simple choices in your lifestyle, you will be faithful to the Lord's call. And by living simply in the midst of others you might inspire others to choose simplicity as well. How blest you are to hear the call to simplicity in the midst of our world today! Ask the Holy Spirit and you will know how to put the call into practice right where you are right now.

[be_thou_my_vision]

[url="http://www.littleportion.org"]THIS[/url] is another option... just an idea. It's what popped into my head while reading your post.

[stlmom]

[quote name='be_thou_my_vision' post='1279357' date='May 22 2007, 06:02 PM'][url="http://www.littleportion.org"]THIS[/url] is another option... just an idea. It's what popped into my head while reading your post.[/quote]


I was thinking of this too! I believe they were discussed in another thread, just can't find it now, but they are a good community from what I remember reading.

[farglefeezlebut]

Thank you all. You have given very good advice.

The Franciscan way is lovely, yes. I also like their love of nature and "Make me an instrument of your peace" is one of my favourite prayers.

I have spent the last 10 minutes fruitlessly searching for Franciscan retreats in the UK. There was something about a retreat centre in Holywell, but it didn't give a list of retreats or anything. Does anyone know of any?

I looked at that website. I live in the UK and moving to another continent would be a big sacrifice - I wouldn't see my family much, but I will look into it.

Sismaria- you have a good point when you talk about living simply. I think everyone should live simply, but I feel I'm personally called to something more than that. Living in a community where everything belongs to everyone and nothing is wholly my own and everything is shared is very beautiful and very challenging at the same time. It's not practically possible for everyone to live like that, but I would like to and I think God would like me to . There are practical steps I can take right now to make my life more simple. I think it's best to make hay while the sun shines.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I will ask Fr Alban about Franciscan retreat centres. He is an OFM - he should be able to help.

In the meantime, perhaps you should contact the [url="http://www.franciscanvocations.org.uk"]Franciscan Sisters Minoress[/url]. They're in Melton Mowbray, which is about halfway between Cambridge and Birmingham if my geography serves me right. They might know of some lay Franciscan retreat centres and be able to teach you more about their 'spirituality of littleness'. You might even find a spiritual director there. I think you ought to have one. (I would offer to share Sr Valery, but as you quite clearly don't want to be conscripted by the Stone Dominicans I will spare you that!)

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='farglefeezlebut' post='1278680' date='May 21 2007, 04:31 PM']Sometimes I wish they had Catholic Amish.[/quote]

I think I may "qualify."

Clothes, owning things, buying things, having things (except books) has never been "my thing."
The concept escapes me, it confuses me.

I have been a Substitute Teacher for the past 10 years and for work I have been using the same 2 pairs of pants and 5 shirts, different patterns. You know, the Monday shirt, the Tuesday shirt etc.

I am tired of wearing black so I now have 4 blue shirts (same pattern) from Land's end and 4 blue pants
from Sears. I wear them for school and to go shopping and to go to church, pretty much for everything I do, outside the home. When I am at home I wear "junkers."

I only buy what I need. If I see something I think I "need" but I'm not sure I make myself wait a week. If I forget about it then that shows me I didn't need it as much as I thought I did.

[Guest 1hartsmom]

I have a book that I highly recommend that may help you with this.
If is called Happy Are Ye Poor. (sorry I loaned out my copy, so I don't have the author right now)
It is an excellent read, and will really make you think about your view on material good etc.

[sismaria]

[quote name='1hartsmom' post='1279738' date='May 23 2007, 09:07 AM']I have a book that I highly recommend that may help you with this.
If is called Happy Are Ye Poor. (sorry I loaned out my copy, so I don't have the author right now)
It is an excellent read, and will really make you think about your view on material good etc.[/quote]


That book is by Father Thomas Dubay.

[be_thou_my_vision]

[quote name='farglefeezlebut' post='1279716' date='May 23 2007, 05:50 AM']I looked at that website. I live in the UK and moving to another continent would be a big sacrifice - I wouldn't see my family much, but I will look into it.[/quote]
You should make your own community! You seem to know what you want... you should discern whether God is calling you to start your own lay community!

[farglefeezlebut]

Wow! That's a pretty big thought...

I shall pray.