Need Some Moral Support

[GodChild]

Hi all! I've been discerning everything for a while and I am taking things very slowly .... but I would like some advice and help please. I'm finding it very hard to keep the 'faith up', so to speak.
I'm not sure how I'm suppose to act, but I get a bit jealous of ppl here on phatmass ... so many congregations, nuns, catholics

In my little corner of the world I feel like I'm the only catholic aged under a million years old (as the Catholic Church in my diocese is like a geriatric club) - its sooo OLD Old ppl everywhere

Now nothing against old ppl ... but it's really getting me down. I feel like there's no one to share my faith with, no one to love my faith with ... it all feels like a barren desert full of old ppl. (lol and cry at the same time)

My faith is being tested and truthfully I'm tempted to leave and go to another faith simply for the 'social' side of things. The pastoral care in the Church feels like it's very money oriented .... like as long as the clergy get money they don't give a beaver dam about the ppl (kinda assuming we'll always be there)
Personally I dont care about the clergy - they've been rotten (well some of them) since the Church's beginning. I'm a Catholic because of God, not because of the buildings, clergy, people etc. But having some ppl on my side would be nice.

The only catholic I knew - with a strong faith AND aged under a billion years old was Belinda. Now with what's happened to her, it's kinda getting me down BUT i can REALLY understand what she was talking about (in regards to Church 'community care')

Just feeling really lonely ppl I love God but he just doesn't seem to talk much. My relationship with Him often feels like .... he loves me but he never calls. In other words, lets say your husband or your wife or your friend etc constantly tells you "i love you" and "i'll always be there" but they never speak to you, or call on the phone or even look in your direction when they pass you by.

Very lonely guys. I sometimes pop onto this site but it just makes me feel angry - like other catholics are all in this little group thing and i'm just outside ... alone ... as usual.

I'm not angry or upset with anyone in particular, you know what I mean ... its a very general feeling directed at noone in particular but everyone at the same time.

I also need some help and advice in resisting some very strong temptation that's coming at me lately - to join another religion. It's a very ancient religion but it's pagan - I know its not God but i feel attracted to it anyway? Why would that be?

I'm not sure what I'm after ... I know some replies will be the usual "I'll pray for you" but that just doesn't help sometimes. Or at least it doesn't feel like it helps.

Ok. Don't get angry .... but I am new at being Catholic, I only converted four years ago and already I feel like a little soldier fresh out of basic training ... stationed at a hard and isolated post with no communication with the Big Boss and no 'comrades' to help.

Honestly God, my life stinks but I know you know what your doing - though sometimes I think I'm telling myself that in the hopes that if I say it enough times I'll come to believe it.
Sorry about the essay and longwinded moan .... I need some major morale boosting.

[AccountDeleted]

Godchild

Do absolutely NOTHING right now. You are certainly going through a spiritual crisis and the evil one is attacking your faith and your vocation. I am going to PM you and I want you to write to me. You are NOT alone, no matter how alone you feel. Do not go the way of Belinda - remember the poisoned apple in Snow White? It looks beautiful on the outside, but oh so deadly.

PM coming now....

Annie



[quote name='GodChild' post='1278375' date='May 21 2007, 03:48 PM']Hi all! I've been discerning everything for a while and I am taking things very slowly .... but I would like some advice and help please. I'm finding it very hard to keep the 'faith up', so to speak.
I'm not sure how I'm suppose to act, but I get a bit jealous of ppl here on phatmass ... so many congregations, nuns, catholics

In my little corner of the world I feel like I'm the only catholic aged under a million years old (as the Catholic Church in my diocese is like a geriatric club) - its sooo OLD Old ppl everywhere

Now nothing against old ppl ... but it's really getting me down. I feel like there's no one to share my faith with, no one to love my faith with ... it all feels like a barren desert full of old ppl. (lol and cry at the same time)

My faith is being tested and truthfully I'm tempted to leave and go to another faith simply for the 'social' side of things. The pastoral care in the Church feels like it's very money oriented .... like as long as the clergy get money they don't give a beaver dam about the ppl (kinda assuming we'll always be there)
Personally I dont care about the clergy - they've been rotten (well some of them) since the Church's beginning. I'm a Catholic because of God, not because of the buildings, clergy, people etc. But having some ppl on my side would be nice.

The only catholic I knew - with a strong faith AND aged under a billion years old was Belinda. Now with what's happened to her, it's kinda getting me down BUT i can REALLY understand what she was talking about (in regards to Church 'community care')

Just feeling really lonely ppl I love God but he just doesn't seem to talk much. My relationship with Him often feels like .... he loves me but he never calls. In other words, lets say your husband or your wife or your friend etc constantly tells you "i love you" and "i'll always be there" but they never speak to you, or call on the phone or even look in your direction when they pass you by.

Very lonely guys. I sometimes pop onto this site but it just makes me feel angry - like other catholics are all in this little group thing and i'm just outside ... alone ... as usual.

I'm not angry or upset with anyone in particular, you know what I mean ... its a very general feeling directed at noone in particular but everyone at the same time.

I also need some help and advice in resisting some very strong temptation that's coming at me lately - to join another religion. It's a very ancient religion but it's pagan - I know its not God but i feel attracted to it anyway? Why would that be?

I'm not sure what I'm after ... I know some replies will be the usual "I'll pray for you" but that just doesn't help sometimes. Or at least it doesn't feel like it helps.

Ok. Don't get angry .... but I am new at being Catholic, I only converted four years ago and already I feel like a little soldier fresh out of basic training ... stationed at a hard and isolated post with no communication with the Big Boss and no 'comrades' to help.

Honestly God, my life stinks but I know you know what your doing - though sometimes I think I'm telling myself that in the hopes that if I say it enough times I'll come to believe it.
Sorry about the essay and longwinded moan .... I need some major morale boosting.[/quote]

[GodChild]

Nunsense, I'm not going to follow the path of Belinda (my word's weren't intended to give that impression) Furthermore I'm not a copycat nor do I play follow the leader, so that won't happen .... Maybe to explain myself better, I feel really tempted and I'm scared as to whether i'll hold up - I need help (spiritual and practical) in holding up against [b]temptation[/b]

I feel tempted to start a new religion - my own religion (please don't laugh), and I feel tempted to follow what I KNOW is a DEAD IMAGE in my own head because it allures me with love and comfort ..... WHY?
Logically in my head it's like feeling 'I'm going to worship this barbie doll" (thats what it might as well be cause apart from Yahweh all 'god's' aren't real) but you FEEL like you want to ... it allures you and you feel inside that the only way you will find peace and freedom is just by 'bowing' just once to this thing.

Am i possessed by a demon?? I know I'm not but then I feel scared that I am.

I probably shouldn't have made any reference to Belinda in my post but it just came as I wrote because I havent been on Phatmass for a while ... and seeing what happened to her has left me grieving - it may sound strange but she was the first devout Catholic aged under 30 that I knew in Australia - not to mention she helped me a while back when I was having problems.
But I'll be the first to stand up in defense of her in regards to the 'holier than thou' and 'nowhere to be seen when trouble hits' tendency of the Church here in Oz.

It's all just too sad and so demoralising and the temptation (and vulnerability) to other faiths is there when they become your main source of support and the church locks you out.

[GodChild]

SORRY GUYS I've just read over my posts and there a load of mumbo jumbo - that tends to happen when I write on emotion.
I'll just tell you the story of what's been going on so maybe you'll understand better.

As some of you may know, I've been discerning my vocation and have felt pulled to the religious life and then felt i received revelations to start a new community. I put posts up about that on phatmass before. Anyways. since that time I've been discerning and slowly following what these revelations were telling me, and I listened to them because I was directed that they are probably from God and I should listen. So that's what I did. These revelations lasted for about three years.

I was advised to get a spiritual director which I did, though I didn't go to them for a long time (as a director). They would speak down to me, judge me and try and make me think things that weren't true ... like saying that I had said something that I hadn't. In the end I felt like they were mocking me - treating me like a joke. And this was true, because they started gossiping about me within their own community and isolating me (because I was part of the lay youth group) of the community. I felt hurt that a 'spiritual director' would speak and gossip about what i had entrusted to them even within their community.

This group was the only social contact I had (because I am sick and physically deformed I don't have 'friends' because I'm the resident quosimodo) - for this reason I had contact with them for a while, not to mention some ppl in the community were very nice.

in order to tell the story better i'll call the 'spiritual director' Anna (not real name)

During this time I met a girl (my age) who became my friend. She liked me . She called me at home - sometimes she'd call and ask how I was - something that shocked me cause no one usually calls me. My phone is dead silent, and bluntly I don't even know why I have one.
But this girl was a Bahai. She taught me of the Bahai faith and I liked it. But the people in the community (inc. Anna) came to know of this and called me up to check up on me. I spoke with Anna and about my friend and she directed me that I was betraying Jesus, crucifying him all over again and being wicked. AS a result of this I broke any ties I had with this girl because I didn't want to crucify Jesus again. After I did this, Anna instructed me that I was saved again - and then didn't have anything to do with me.

Following this I was hurt. I tried to repent as best I could and I fasted, went to adoration, Mass, said rosaries till I thought I'd puke (btw I HATE the rosary now) and tried to listen and discern what God wanted from me.

During this time, I lived like a recluse - (I live like a solitary without needing to enter a convent or community because ppl like me always live alone in society). I went to uni, did my best and worked to get money.

I continued to feel called to religious life and so I enquired with communities. When I enquired with the Carmelies they immediately refused me and I wasn't given a reason. This rejection hurt alot but I thought that it was God persecuting me to make me strong.
I enquired with other communities, including Tyburn, but though attracted to the religious life I didn't feel called to those communities. At about this time (about two years ago) I met a nice guy whom I liked and I started to question whether a religious life would be for me or not? This guy, knew the spiritual director I had seen before because he was part of the lay youth group the community ran.
It was at this time that Anna called me (out of the blue) to speak with me. So we got together to speak. We gad a coffee, she knew that I and this guy liked each other and during the coffee and talk she advised me .... she advised me to stay away from him and focus myself on prayer. Furthermore she told me that a girl like myself would not want to be with him because I would 'slow him down' and I am unsuitable for married life . At that point in time, I had first read the book 'story of a soul' by St Therese and saw how God speaks to us through ppl - so I saw that it was God speaking to me through Anna. Furthermore, the Sunday reading for that week was about loving God and leaving everything to follow Him and not loving wife, brother or sister more than Him. I felt that God wanted me to prove that I love Him by cutting off this one relationship I had and so I did - to prove to God that I love him more than myself.

This was a sad thing for me to do, and so I started reading the Bible more at this time. I read the Bible but it didn't make much sense to me, because the Bible is about love and God's love but I knew that loving God was pain, because suffering alot of pain is the way to show you love God. Anna and the community reaffirmed this, by teaching me that God's love is expressed through pain - Christs crucifixion, and the way to love God is through self immolation and pain. Anna also taught me that the 'higher way' to self immolation was through punishing the body and that I should cut myself and bleed - cause this is what God desires, that scars of self immolation are pleasing to god and we must bleed our blood because without the spilling of blood their is no remission of sin.

The last two years I lived my life like this, trying to perfect myself for God and discern my vocation. I cut myself off form everyone, lived in isolation, fasted - whenever I'd think too highly of myself or feel that I can do something I wold cut myself down and be humble. I was instructed by the community and Anna that humility comes through mortifying the soul by telling yourself that your nothing and dust before God. So that's what I did - I told myself I was dust, useless, ugly, stupid, fat, disgusting - the works. As Anna told me, "to truly love God you must abase yourself even to self annihilation". I tried as hard as I could.

This continued until recent times, until something happened. I came across a website (written by a non-catholic) which was lovingly written and spoke of God wanting us to be 'happy' and at peace.
This was strange for me cause I was always led to believe that God desires our pain and agony to purify our sins - that if we don't suffer we don't really love God.

I spent the last 3-4 months searching more and more - and I have come to believe that I was abused by Anna and her religious community.

I spent about a month crying and not sleeping and having to force myself to eat and drink. That's why the last few months I have not been on phatmass.
This realisation wasn't sudden but took time and was a painful realisation.
This started a rollercoaster - I went to confession one Sunday (about two months ago) and basically yelled at the priest
demanding that God apologise to me and beg for MY forgiveness for having misled me the way he had.
Then I decided I don't want to believe in God anymore - that he can suffer Himself and I gave Him the 'silent treatment' for about a week. During this week I met Sonya (again not real name) who has a very different faith to Catholicism and who has been like a rock for me. The problem is that Sonya belongs to a vampiric faith.


When I learned of Sonya's faith I went to a priest in my diocese for some spiritual guidance as to what to do - about my situation, Anna and her community. The priest listened to my story and told me it would be better I don't say anything and keep this to myself, whilst praying to God for guidance. He told me that Anna was a 'kind' woman and that I was probably in the fault as such a 'kind' woman would not mislead anyone and though His words may be hard for me to accept - I should repent and pray to God for forgiveness for coming to him and trying to slander a holy woman. Additionally he told me that for cutting and bleeding myself I am heading on a downward path that won't be easy to get off.

At the end I am left ??????????????????????????????????????????????

PLEASE EXPLAIN

I have spent the last month very
I have continued going to church on Sunday but it has just seeped in that I really do not have anyone in the Church. The church is full of old ppl worried about their arthritis and who cooked the best cupcakes for the priest. The priest is concerned about the collection plate and doesn't want to hear about actions of abuse by their 'religious'

For God - I have cut myself off from everyone and everything so that I would please Him ....

I'm left at the end of this feeling very alone and very stupid - i have virtually killed myself in spirit and soul to please God, is it enough?. I feel numb and like I'm walking in a daze. I feel very alone and need some friends plz.

[Gemma]

Your cross is your deformity and the resultant "rejection" that comes with it. Living with such a disability, and offering everything to God, is what's going to bring you closer to Him. May St. Germaine of Pibrac pray for you, as well as Blessed Margaret of Costello.

Let me put it like this: if what you were doing was God's will (the cutting, etc.), you would've found peace. I know I'm sounding contradictory to this "director" you've been under, but I'm appalled at what she's advised you to do. I personally would've cut off communication with her if she had told me to do all that stuff.

There's a Dominican priest from Oz here on PM. I hope he pops up here soon.

And don't forget the Founders' Forum.

Here is what I would recommend for you: St. Francis de Sales. Study the Visitation sisterhood, and learn from them the way of Salesian gentleness. The "Spiritual Directory of St. Francis de Sales" is online.

I would also recommend the Divine Mercy devotion. You'll learn a whole lot more through that than through cutting yourself.

Remember St. Therese talking about the nun in her convent who had given herself to the Divine Justice, and spent the rest of her life in her cell going insane? St. Therese then gave herself up to Divine Love, and God showed her the Little Way, which is very similar to Salesian spirituality.

What you're going through is a Dark Night of the Soul, which is discussed by St. John of the Cross in a book of the same name. Whenever someone tells me they're going through this, I tell them that God is carrying them, and the child cannot see the parent because their face is nestled against His chest. It's an exercise in trust.

I've been through numerous dark nights, and my holy founder, St. Paul of the Cross, had one that lasted FIFTY (50) years! For those of us called to found religious orders, we will run a gauntlet of spiritual experiences for the sake of those who will be sent to us.

Instead of the regular rosary, concentrate on Our Lady's seven sorrows.

I'm really sorry to say that "Anna" seems to be very blind, spiritually speaking, and couldn't see the forest for the trees, especially where your disability is concerned. I will pray for her community. In this day and age, when germs are such free agents, that community is exposing itself to disease. One can flog oneself without bringing the blood. Such is the proper use of "the discipline."

Email me if you need to. Hope I've been helpful.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Starets]

Back in my fundamentalist days, this was called "needing someone with skin on". I think it is an entirely legitimate need. There is something "icky" about "anna's" advice about cutting and bleeding and self immolation. Sounds more like sadomasochism than an emptying of the self. Not very sound advice at all. I am also freakish-looking. One good thing about the habit is that it hides that! I do not know how muc help I can be to you, just that I hear your cry and anguish. I am on the far side of the Pacific and the far side of 30 too. I am not even sure what advice I can give you or even that it would do any good. Strikes me as bveing very unbalanced. Both the advice you've received and your reactions to it. I cannot put a firm finger on it right now. Maybe I will if I am not too exhausted after my workday today.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='GodChild' post='1278384' date='May 21 2007, 06:03 PM']SORRY GUYS I've just read over my posts and there a load of mumbo jumbo - that tends to happen when I write on emotion.
I'll just tell you the story of what's been going on so maybe you'll understand better.

As some of you may know, I've been discerning my vocation and have felt pulled to the religious life and then felt i received revelations to start a new community. I put posts up about that on phatmass before. Anyways. since that time I've been discerning and slowly following what these revelations were telling me, and I listened to them because I was directed that they are probably from God and I should listen. So that's what I did. These revelations lasted for about three years.

I was advised to get a spiritual director which I did, though I didn't go to them for a long time (as a director). They would speak down to me, judge me and try and make me think things that weren't true ... like saying that I had said something that I hadn't. In the end I felt like they were mocking me - treating me like a joke. And this was true, because they started gossiping about me within their own community and isolating me (because I was part of the lay youth group) of the community. I felt hurt that a 'spiritual director' would speak and gossip about what i had entrusted to them even within their community.

This group was the only social contact I had (because I am sick and physically deformed I don't have 'friends' because I'm the resident quosimodo) - for this reason I had contact with them for a while, not to mention some ppl in the community were very nice.

in order to tell the story better i'll call the 'spiritual director' Anna (not real name)

During this time I met a girl (my age) who became my friend. She liked me . She called me at home - sometimes she'd call and ask how I was - something that shocked me cause no one usually calls me. My phone is dead silent, and bluntly I don't even know why I have one.
But this girl was a Bahai. She taught me of the Bahai faith and I liked it. But the people in the community (inc. Anna) came to know of this and called me up to check up on me. I spoke with Anna and about my friend and she directed me that I was betraying Jesus, crucifying him all over again and being wicked. AS a result of this I broke any ties I had with this girl because I didn't want to crucify Jesus again. After I did this, Anna instructed me that I was saved again - and then didn't have anything to do with me.

Following this I was hurt. I tried to repent as best I could and I fasted, went to adoration, Mass, said rosaries till I thought I'd puke (btw I HATE the rosary now) and tried to listen and discern what God wanted from me.

During this time, I lived like a recluse - (I live like a solitary without needing to enter a convent or community because ppl like me always live alone in society). I went to uni, did my best and worked to get money.

I continued to feel called to religious life and so I enquired with communities. When I enquired with the Carmelies they immediately refused me and I wasn't given a reason. This rejection hurt alot but I thought that it was God persecuting me to make me strong.
I enquired with other communities, including Tyburn, but though attracted to the religious life I didn't feel called to those communities. At about this time (about two years ago) I met a nice guy whom I liked and I started to question whether a religious life would be for me or not? This guy, knew the spiritual director I had seen before because he was part of the lay youth group the community ran.
It was at this time that Anna called me (out of the blue) to speak with me. So we got together to speak. We gad a coffee, she knew that I and this guy liked each other and during the coffee and talk she advised me .... she advised me to stay away from him and focus myself on prayer. Furthermore she told me that a girl like myself would not want to be with him because I would 'slow him down' and I am unsuitable for married life . At that point in time, I had first read the book 'story of a soul' by St Therese and saw how God speaks to us through ppl - so I saw that it was God speaking to me through Anna. Furthermore, the Sunday reading for that week was about loving God and leaving everything to follow Him and not loving wife, brother or sister more than Him. I felt that God wanted me to prove that I love Him by cutting off this one relationship I had and so I did - to prove to God that I love him more than myself.

This was a sad thing for me to do, and so I started reading the Bible more at this time. I read the Bible but it didn't make much sense to me, because the Bible is about love and God's love but I knew that loving God was pain, because suffering alot of pain is the way to show you love God. Anna and the community reaffirmed this, by teaching me that God's love is expressed through pain - Christs crucifixion, and the way to love God is through self immolation and pain. Anna also taught me that the 'higher way' to self immolation was through punishing the body and that I should cut myself and bleed - cause this is what God desires, that scars of self immolation are pleasing to god and we must bleed our blood because without the spilling of blood their is no remission of sin.

The last two years I lived my life like this, trying to perfect myself for God and discern my vocation. I cut myself off form everyone, lived in isolation, fasted - whenever I'd think too highly of myself or feel that I can do something I wold cut myself down and be humble. I was instructed by the community and Anna that humility comes through mortifying the soul by telling yourself that your nothing and dust before God. So that's what I did - I told myself I was dust, useless, ugly, stupid, fat, disgusting - the works. As Anna told me, "to truly love God you must abase yourself even to self annihilation". I tried as hard as I could.

This continued until recent times, until something happened. I came across a website (written by a non-catholic) which was lovingly written and spoke of God wanting us to be 'happy' and at peace.
This was strange for me cause I was always led to believe that God desires our pain and agony to purify our sins - that if we don't suffer we don't really love God.

I spent the last 3-4 months searching more and more - and I have come to believe that I was abused by Anna and her religious community.

I spent about a month crying and not sleeping and having to force myself to eat and drink. That's why the last few months I have not been on phatmass.
This realisation wasn't sudden but took time and was a painful realisation.
This started a rollercoaster - I went to confession one Sunday (about two months ago) and basically yelled at the priest
demanding that God apologise to me and beg for MY forgiveness for having misled me the way he had.
Then I decided I don't want to believe in God anymore - that he can suffer Himself and I gave Him the 'silent treatment' for about a week. During this week I met Sonya (again not real name) who has a very different faith to Catholicism and who has been like a rock for me. The problem is that Sonya belongs to a vampiric faith.
When I learned of Sonya's faith I went to a priest in my diocese for some spiritual guidance as to what to do - about my situation, Anna and her community. The priest listened to my story and told me it would be better I don't say anything and keep this to myself, whilst praying to God for guidance. He told me that Anna was a 'kind' woman and that I was probably in the fault as such a 'kind' woman would not mislead anyone and though His words may be hard for me to accept - I should repent and pray to God for forgiveness for coming to him and trying to slander a holy woman. Additionally he told me that for cutting and bleeding myself I am heading on a downward path that won't be easy to get off.

At the end I am left ??????????????????????????????????????????????

PLEASE EXPLAIN

I have spent the last month very
I have continued going to church on Sunday but it has just seeped in that I really do not have anyone in the Church. The church is full of old ppl worried about their arthritis and who cooked the best cupcakes for the priest. The priest is concerned about the collection plate and doesn't want to hear about actions of abuse by their 'religious'

For God - I have cut myself off from everyone and everything so that I would please Him ....

I'm left at the end of this feeling very alone and very stupid - i have virtually killed myself in spirit and soul to please God, is it enough?. I feel numb and like I'm walking in a daze. I feel very alone and need some friends plz.[/quote]

There is enough suffering in life without having to manufacture it! Suffering is a way to come closer to God, but cutting yourself is not holy - it is sick. I was a psych nurse for 10 years and if someone had told me they cut themselves to get closer to God, I would have admitted them quick smart to a psych hospital!

I think you have had a series of bad influences on your spiritual life. Go back to the basics by talking to God instead of to everyone with a point of view. If you can get a spiritual director who knows what they are doing - it would be good, but pray about this first - the last thing you need is another person telling you to hurt yourself.

There are many ways to consecrate a life to God, and it may or may not be that you are called to a community. But before you think about that, first get your relationship with God on the right foot. Spend time in adoration and in prayer and "listen" a lot. Let the Holy Spirit fill your heart and tell you what to do. There is no hurry - "be still and know that I am God".

If you are able to move to Sydney, I would strongly suggest you do so - that place sounds pretty strange to me.

As for starting your own religious community. My recommendation is just that you get your relationship with God on track first before involving other people in your plans.

Believe it or not, God does love you -- so stop "trying" so hard. Relax a little and try being kind to yourself. It must be very hard for Him to get through to you while all of this other stuff is going on.

And yes, I AM going to pray for you. Prayer is a powerful force and can work miracles.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Dear GodChild,

I have a very close friend, a girl named Louise, who is in the process of converting to Catholicism. Her parents, sister, and one of her grandparents are all fundamentalist Christians with some very strange ideas about life in general and Catholicism in particular. Louise is severely autistic and has a language disorder. She could not speak at all until she was nine years old and she still struggles with speech now. Unfortunately, her parents didn't look into speech therapy for her as a child or any of that sort of thing. Her grandmother declared that Louise was a naughty girl, possessed by the devil, and that once the devil had been driven out of her she would be able to speak.

So they put Louise through all kinds of physical mortifications. She wasn't given enough food. She had to sleep without blankets and with the windows open in the middle of winter. She was beaten. She was prayed over. And as she began to develop her own system of understanding the world (she thinks in pictures and is able to 'translate' what people say to her into that medium) she came to the conclusion that she must be a very bad person indeed.

When she was about eleven or twelve, demonic powers really did start to affect her life. The devil's speciality is to prey on our weaknesses, to magnify them, to make us feel dominated and controlled by them. As Louise believed that she really was possessed, Satan played on that belief. Louise began to suffer from horrible nightmares featuring diabolical figures. A figure who appeared recurrently was an elderly lady who looked very sweet and who tried to persuade Louise that she wanted to help her. Louise knew this lady was evil. She began to see her everywhere - at the bus stop, on the way to school. One afternoon, as she was alone in her bedroom, she felt something pick her up by the scruff of her neck, shake her hard, and then drop her with great force onto the floor. She got bad bruising from that.

When she became a Christian herself at the age of fifteen (her family's treatment of her had led her to renounce the idea of a loving God) she felt her throat constricting as she tried to say the name of Jesus. It was as if something were throttling her to stop her from getting it out. She managed at last - and from that moment on the nightmares vanished. She never saw the old lady again. She never had any more terrifying experiences. Today she is one of the most loving and inspiring Catholics I know, even though she only made a formal decision to convert at Christmastime.

And this is a young woman who can hardly ever get to church, as her parents will quite often forbid it. When she does go, she struggles to understand the homily (the acoustics in the building aren't friendly to people with language processing disorders) and she gets scared by the crowds of people. But she loves going all the same, because in her words, "Mass is beautiful and full of God." Her hope is to be a nun one day.

When you feel upset that the social side of church is letting you down, remember Louise's story. Take all your hurts and frustrations to Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. Go to Adoration as often as you can. If your parish doesn't have Adoration regularly, ask the priest to schedule more holy hours. Coming before our God in silence to do nothing but be there is a humbling and healing experience.

My parish church at home is a little like a geriatric social club, but going to university opened my eyes: there really [i]are[/i] thousands of faithful young Catholics in the UK! Being in the chaplaincy was a heady experience at first because of all the young faces. It has inspired me to go home and ginger up the parish youth movement. Perhaps God is calling you to be instrumental in the life of your parish in this particular way. You could start a youth group if your church doesn't have one already and go into Catholic schools to spread enthusiasm for the faith. This is what John Paul II called 'the new evangelisation' - inspiring Catholics to embrace their Catholicism. Making preparations for the group would also allow you to become more knowledgeable about the Faith yourself.

Finally, isn't World Youth Day going to take place in Sydney? You wanted young Catholics. You've got young Catholics. They'll be there in their thousands.

Edited May 21, 2007 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[Alphabeta]

Humility doesn't mean hating yourself, thinking you're dirt. People shouldn't try to force themselves to be humble by bashing themselves. Humility does include having a realistic sense of your faults and weaknesses...emphasis on realistic! But I think the most important meaning of humility is just simply recognizing that you are dependent on God (whereas pride doesn't mean being able to see that you have good qualities, but forgetting that they are God's gifts and acting as if you could do without Him). This is why Mary was the most humble of creatures even though she was all-holy.

Spiritual directors should not be telling you which people you should and should not be in contact with (apart from the self-mutilation that other people have commented on and the other abuses). It sounds as if "Anna" (I'm glad that's not her real name since it's mine ) had really been taking advantage of your loneliness and vulnerability. That is what it comes down to, although she may have meant well according to her own distorted perception of what it means to be a Christian.

I hope you find peace in Christ.

[be_thou_my_vision]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1278401' date='May 21 2007, 07:17 AM']If you are able to move to Sydney, I would strongly suggest you do so - that place sounds pretty strange to me.[/quote]
I agree, GodChild.

[Mary-Kathryn]

[b]This was a sad thing for me to do, and so I started reading the Bible more at this time. I read the Bible but it didn't make much sense to me, because the Bible is about love and God's love but I knew that loving God was pain, because suffering alot of pain is the way to show you love God. Anna and the community reaffirmed this, by teaching me that God's love is expressed through pain - Christs crucifixion, and the way to love God is through self immolation and pain. Anna also taught me that the 'higher way' to self immolation was through punishing the body and that I should cut myself and bleed - cause this is what God desires, that scars of self immolation are pleasing to god and we must bleed our blood because without the spilling of blood their is no remission ofsin. [/b]

GodChild,

I know you care about Anna and everyone so I'll try to be as loving as I can here. I am a woman in my 40's and have seen this kind of "cutting." Any priest, bishop, and certainly even the Pope would tell you this is not healthy behavior and would forbid you to entertain the idea. People need help for this kind of problem and I believe Anna is leading people down a very dangerous road.

What I need you to do is to stay completely away from her for your safety. Trust me please on this one. I have a feeling your "crisis" may be a gift because you are turning towards/searching out more healthy Catholics. You know deep in your heart that good spiritual directors cause no harm through gossip and certainly not through physical means. Anna taught you to hurt yourself. As a mother, I would never give a knife to my child and teach him/her to brutalize his body. Mary loved Jesus. As a mother she loves you and brings you to Her Son. He bled for you and your love is what He waits for, not your scars. I truly believe that God is pulling you closer to His Church by pulling you away from what may hurt you.

Don't give up on us though! We Catholics are weak humans but there are many wonderful holy folks your age out there. There is a priest here that goes by the name "Cappie" I wonder if he could give you some heads-up on good young groups in your neck of the woods? He's from there. Also have you looked at 3rd Orders/Lay organizations for now? It might give you some interaction and joy.


If you are already cutting and find that you can't stop, please look for resources in your area. I'm in the USA so, don't know what's there. I'm not judging, just being loving {{{hugs}}} I think you are a great young person with a good head on your shoulders.

[puellapaschalis]

Sometimes I come to Phatmass and get really, really [i]REALLY[/i] narked (NB - not the original words that sprung up in my head, they're a bit too rude) with a lot of people here. Sometimes it just seems like one great big cuddly fuzzy USA club and every now and again people will pop their heads over the wall and realise there's a whole big world out here too. The arrogance blows me away.

But it doesn't stop there. There are people here irl, whom I thought I was quite close to, whom I could trust, who all of a sudden become very distant, who seem to cut off all contact with me. Then it's hard for me to share any of this with my other friends here mainly because I'm a foreigner and there's one heck of a language barrier going on; praying becomes difficult because I can't "settle" down to it.

Sooo, the Catholic crowd I know online don't give a toss, the Catholic crowd here at home don't give a toss, and I find myself spending lots and lots and LOTS of time talking with the people are are really close to me, who don't drop me when someone more interesting comes along, and who won't mind if I turn up at their house and need to cry and get things off my chest for several hours - in English, moreover!

And yet these people are the atheists, the stark secularists, the pro-abortion people, the everything-is-relative people. There are times when I can't bear to be inside that church building any longer than is strictly necessary. The ones who stick by me are the ones for whom the Benedictine cross around my neck is a nice piece of jewellery; for whom the rosary beads in my pocket are just another PP-hobby.

There are times when I don't have anyone in church each Sunday; I sit there, on my own, surrounded by people, going through the motions and mumbling the words and inside it's either as blank as a new blackboard, or it's a riot of !(@&*(!&*!!#&%. And the only thing I can find - I'm quite a thinky person - the only thing I can latch on to is that the one person I do have is Christ, and the rest - lonely as it is - don't matter nearly as much.

That thought doesn't help much. It still smells of elderberries royally when people on Phatmass are annoying and people here are annoying and it's all just ARRGH. It's a really abstract concept and it doesn't do anything to "comfort" me. But somehow - and heck, I might be wrong and all my atheist friends might be right! - it lessens the despair a bit. Or at least it appears to.

I would say...try and be strong. Be gentle on yourself. Don't be afraid to cut people out of your life at the moment if they're hurting you. Live in the now, and if you can't manage anything other than "Good Morning, God-who-doesn't-seem-to-give-a-beaver dam" in the way of prayer, that's ok. Sometimes going through the motions is enough because it's better than nothing. And in a slightly bizarre come-about, wasn't it the psalmist who said, "Every night I drench my bed with my tears"?

PP

[philosophette]

I agree with that everyone has been saying here. As much as Anna might seem like a support to you, and guided by God, she is not. She has a very odd perception of God and what it means to serve him and God created us good, so by hurting our bodies by cutting we are not respecting His gift to us of life. Stay away from physical penances, it seems that the penances with the people and the physical difficulties which you have are more than enough for any one person.

Gemma did a good thing in recommending that you read up on St Francis de Sales. [url="http://www.oblates.org/spirituality/daily_with_desales/"]Here is a good website with his writings on[/url] it. I am a Salesian and de Sales worked especially against the kind of spirituality that this Anna promotes.

One of the things that St Francis de Sales said was that, "Virtue lies in the middle." Extreme asceticism is as bad as extreme indulgence. Anna seems like an extreme personality and I also agree that a spiritual director should NOT be telling you who can and cannot be in your life and ordering you to no longer have contact with them. She sounds like she has a very controlling personality. It is not good for you to be around it, and as others have said her spirituality seems touched by Jansenism and Masochism.

Unfortunately I have known people like that in my own life whom everyone has thought a saint, but whom I have known to be a fraud and mentally ill. I have also been rejected by a community for not "following" this person. Some communities can be very unhealthy. I ended up moving away from this place because of how bad it was, and perhaps you could consider moving away from there as well.

Humility is realizing who we are in God's eyes... not beating up on ourselves... realizing that we are God's children and that he loves us so much and that His mercy is infinite and that he wants us to have a close, joyful, peaceful relationship with him. All of those positive things that that website told you about God are probably how God really is, you are just not in a healthy community that lets God be God....

One thing that really helped me once I got away from the "toxic" community that i mentioned above was some counseling. It was a terrible experience to have my image of God so messed with, but by seeking an outside opinion, having someone to bounce ideas off of, and who was not a part of that place really helped me to process all of my hurt and feeling of betrayal and to get to a better place then I was at before. Perhaps you want to consider this as well. I would highly recommend it.

I will be praying for you. God bless you!

[alicemary]

I am so very sorry to hear of your trials. Many times our lives are difficult indeed. How horrifying that people befriended you only to have you join their cults(I refuse to call their beliefs any type of religion). You need to get out of your circumstances immediately. Do you have any type of financial abilitity to move? Do you have family? I would suggest some counseling would be uppermost. Not sure of your age, but you really do need some help, and I impolore you to find it. God is truly a God of love, not hurt, not pain. You may have pain in your life right now, but it does not have to stay that way. Reach out, as you have done on phatmass, and find the help you need. My prayers join the rest of the phamilies
Alicemary

[farglefeezlebut]

This "Anna" woman sounds very strange. What ahe has told you contradicts scripture, tradition and plain common sense.

God loves you.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." John 3.16-17

"Hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us."-Romans 5.5

"What then are we to say about these things? If God is for us, who is against us?"-Romans 8.31

"God’s love was revealed among us in this way: God sent his only Son into the world so that we might live through him."1John 4.9

"Your steadfast love, O Lord, extends to the heavens,
your faithfulness to the clouds.
Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains,
your judgements are like the great deep;
you save humans and animals alike, O Lord.


How precious is your steadfast love, O God!
All people may take refuge in the shadow of your wings.
They feast on the abundance of your house,
and you give them drink from the river of your delights.
For with you is the fountain of life;
in your light we see light" Ps. 36; 5-9

Also read "Deus Caritas Est" if you get the chance.

(hugs) Please take care. God loves you and he knows better than you do.You're in my prayers.