Will The Universal Indult Come Out Within A Year?

[Aloysius]

SSPX Eucharists are valid but illicit.

I hate to start rumors... but... Pentecost anyone? Haha, some sort of pun about speaking in one tongue and being understood by the whole world?

This is the next date I'll be looking for. haha, of course, I've fallen for all the other ones too. I fell hardest for the Feast of Pius V because that would've been sooo perfect.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1279380' date='May 22 2007, 05:20 PM']Vatican Official: Pope Has Plans for Latin Mass
Says Benedict XVI Wants to Offer This "Treasure" to All

APARECIDA, Brazil, MAY 21, 2007 (Zenit.org).- The president of the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei" has confirmed that Benedict XVI hopes to increase the availability of the Latin Mass.

Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos said this Wednesday when he addressed the 5th General Conference of the Episcopate of Latin America and the Caribbean, meeting in Brazil through the end of May.

The Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei" was formed by Pope John Paul II in 1988 following the schismatic gesture of the illegal episcopal ordinations carried out by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

The cardinal first explained that the commission was established when "a notable group of priests, religious and faithful who had shown their discontent with the conciliar liturgical reform and had congregated around the leadership of the French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, separated themselves from him because they were not in agreement with the schismatic act of the ordination of bishops without due pontifical mandate."

"Today," Cardinal Castrillón Hoyos continued, "the commission is not limited to the service of those faithful who wished to stay in full communion on that occasion, nor to the efforts aiming to end the painful schismatic situation and achieve the return to full communion of these brothers from the Society of St. Pius X."

He said: "It is the Holy Father's wish that this dicastery additionally offers its services to satisfy the just aspirations of those who, due to a particular sensitivity -- without being linked to either of the two groups I've mentioned -- desire to keep alive the former Latin liturgy in the celebration of the Eucharist and the other sacraments."

Ending schism

However, the cardinal confirmed that "without a doubt, the most important task, which concerns the entire Church, is looking to put an end to the schismatic act and reconstruct, without ambiguousness, full communion."

Cardinal Castrillón Hoyos recalled that before being elected Pope, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger served on the commission.

"[The Holy Father] wishes that the commission become an organization of the Holy See with the particular and distinct aim of conserving and maintaining the value of the traditional Latin liturgy," Cardinal Castrillón Hoyos said. "But it should be clearly affirmed that this does not mean a going back, a return to the times before the reform of 1970.

"Instead, it means a generous offer of the Vicar of Christ, who, as an expression of his pastoral will, wants to put the treasures of the Latin liturgy that nourished the spiritual life of so many generation of faithful Catholics for so many centuries at the disposal of the entire Church.

"The recovery of this richness is united to the not-less-precious current liturgy of the Church."

Cardinal Castrillón Hoyos explained that the Pope intends to extend to the entire Church the possibility of celebrating Mass and the sacraments according to the liturgical books promulgated by Pope John XXIII in 1962.

He thus seemed to confirm rumors from earlier in the year that Benedict XVI intended to make the Latin Mass more available.

Coexistence

The 77-year-old cardinal mentioned the "good experiences had by communities of religious and apostolic life" that celebrate "this liturgy in peace and serenity." And he recalled that in Brazil, the Diocese of Campos, formerly followers of Lefebvre "and now, after five years, showing good fruits" after their return to full communion.

"The project of the Holy Father has already been partially tested in de Campos where the peaceful cohabitation of the two forms of the only Roman rite in the Church is a beautiful reality," he said. "We have the hopes that this model will produce good fruits, also in other places in the Church where faithful Catholics with distinct liturgical sensitivities live together."

Cardinal Hoyos said that "Ecclesia Dei" oversees some 300 priests and 200 seminarians as well as hundreds of thousands of faithful. He said the Society of St. Pius X has four bishops, ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre, 500 priests and about 600,000 faithful.

He asked "that we pray to the Lord so that the Holy Father's project can soon become a reality for the unity of the Church."
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[color="#8B0000"]Sounds like the Papa has something in mind soon. Again, I guess we're just goona have to wait. Btw, I'm not familiar with the aforementioned Schismatic group. Is the Eucharist valid? My guess is no... but just out of curiousity... [/color][/quote]

The SSPX is the schismatic group. The SSPX has valid Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, Extreme Unction and Order, but it does not have valid Penance and Matrimony. (I typed this part of my post before I saw that Al had already posted a response to the validity question)

[quote]SSPX Eucharists are valid but illicit.

I hate to start rumors... but... Pentecost anyone? Haha, some sort of pun about speaking in one tongue and being understood by the whole world?

This is the next date I'll be looking for. haha, of course, I've fallen for all the other ones too. I fell hardest for the Feast of Pius V because that would've been sooo perfect.[/quote]

That'll be the next date I'm looking for.

Edited May 22, 2007 by StThomasMore

[jeffpugh]

Thanks for answering that one STM. Aloysius, I like the way you're thinking. Maybe that is what the Papa plans. I think it would be brilliant

[Resurrexi]

I guess Pentecost is out...

I hear the next possible date is Tuesday.

[Didymus]

are there any blogs you guys go to for these dates? I've been looking for the more liturgically centered blogs...

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1282263' date='May 27 2007, 04:46 PM']are there any blogs you guys go to for these dates? I've been looking for the more liturgically centered blogs...[/quote]

[url="http://universalindult.blogspot.com/"]http://universalindult.blogspot.com/[/url]

[Didymus]

coulda bit me in the butt

thanks!

Edited May 27, 2007 by Didymus

[toledo_jesus]

I don't think the Tridentine Mass should be given a Universal Indult. I think that it should be used as a guide for softening the Novus Ordo's rough edges. That's what I'd hope would happen if priests were given permission to say it.

[Apotheoun]

I think that the previous missal should be restored, but translated into the vernacular languages.

Of course, I'm just a Byzantine Catholic looking in from the outside.

[Didymus]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1282362' date='May 27 2007, 08:46 PM']I don't think the Tridentine Mass should be given a Universal Indult. I think that it should be used as a guide for softening the Novus Ordo's rough edges. That's what I'd hope would happen if priests were given permission to say it.[/quote]

I think that's Benedict's aim, at least that's my guess. If both masses are on the same level then we can go back to do what we failed to do universally originally after VII - the transition. If they both exist on the same level then we'll eventually be able to actually see a continuity in the liturgy as the Novus Ordo becomes what it was intended to become. We will undergo the Novus Ordo transition again, by going back to it's source.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1282364' date='May 27 2007, 07:49 PM']I think that the previous missal should be restored, but translated into the vernacular languages.

Of course, I'm just a Byzantine Catholic looking in from the outside.

[/quote]

I would prefer a NO in Latin to a TLM in English if it's translated like anything else is by the ICEL.
But if the TLM were translated were translated well into English, I would prefer it to a Latin NO.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1282381' date='May 27 2007, 07:36 PM']I would prefer a NO in Latin to a TLM in English if it's translated like anything else is by the ICEL.
But if the TLM were translated were translated well into English, I would prefer it to a Latin NO.[/quote]
I am talking about a translation, not a paraphrase. Besides, there are excellent translations of the older missal in English (and probably many other languages) in prayer books that were made for the laity prior to the Second Vatican Council.

As far as the missal of Paul VI is concerned, I think that it should be scrapped entirely, and that the Roman Rite should return to the missal of Pius V (in the vernacular, with some use of Latin).

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1282382' date='May 27 2007, 08:39 PM']I am talking about a translation, not a paraphrase. Besides, there are excellent translations of the older missal in English (and probably many other languages) in prayer books that were made for the laity prior to the Second Vatican Council.

As far as the missal of Paul VI is concerned, I think that it should be scrapped entirely, and that the Roman Rite should return to the missal of Pius V (in the vernacular, with some use of Latin).[/quote]

There are many excellent translations available, and I own a missal (Angelus Press 1962) with such a translation. That said, this translation is not perfect in any way, shape or form. This biggest problems in translation I find are "et in sæcula sæculorum" and "per omina sæcula sæculorum" being translated as "world without end," when they should be translated "and unto the ages of ages" and "through all ages of ages," respectively.

Although I do not really like the suppression of the Judica Me, the Introit, the the Offertory prayers, the Communion prayers and the Last Gospel; nor do I like the addition of the second epistle and the new Offertory prayers; nor do I like the movement of the words "Mysterium Fidei" and the movement of the last blessing; I find that the Novus Ordo can be done well is it is said in Latin, ad orientem, with male altar servers, Communion kneeling on the tongue and with veiled women, etc.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1282384' date='May 27 2007, 10:56 PM']There are many excellent translations available, and I own a missal (Angelus Press 1962) with such a translation. That said, this translation is not perfect in any way, shape or form. This biggest problems in translation I find are "et in sæcula sæculorum" and "per omina sæcula sæculorum" being translated as "world without end," when they should be translated "and unto the ages of ages" and "through all ages of ages," respectively.

Although I do not really like the suppression of the Judica Me, the Introit, the the Offertory prayers, the Communion prayers and the Last Gospel; nor do I like the addition of the second epistle and the new Offertory prayers; nor do I like the movement of the words "Mysterium Fidei" and the movement of the last blessing; I find that the Novus Ordo can be done well is it is said in Latin, ad orientem, with male altar servers, Communion kneeling on the tongue and with veiled women, etc.[/quote]

Amen to the latter bit (you lost me on the former just a tad). I think I mentioned this before, but I sing at a Latin mass that is held every third week of the month at a very Catholic parish. It's really beautiful stuff. Can never go wrong with solemnity and piety.

Edited May 28, 2007 by Sacred Music Man

[jeffpugh]

I'm bumping this one up. I'm hoping the motu proprio is coming really really soon...