Grave Reasons For Nfp

[cathochick]

There's a good article here: [url="http://www.ignatius.com/magazines/hprweb/bonilla.htm"]Humanae Vitae: Grave Motives to Use a Good Translation[/url]. I like the comparison between the Pauline translation and the Vatican translation.

[Didacus]

I didn't have time to read it all, but I put the link in my favorites - will catch it up later.


Thanks for posting this, a lot of people need to know.

(PS: love your screen name Cathochick)

[prose]

My husband and I do talks at marriage prep on NFP, and have taken all the Billings training forcertification (although we decided not to become instructors). Nice to see a fellow teacher!

What method do you teach? Billings? Serena? Creighton?

[cathochick]

I teach the sympto-thermal method through CCL. They're in the process of giving the course a makeover. The new course is expected out this summer and will be much easier to learn, use, understand, and teach.

I've taken the Billings class online. It's a great method!

[prose]

I like it. Simple, straightforward. I couldn't seem to "get" the temp. method. Maybe I wasn't too smart I actually got pregnant on that method!! (Thank you God) It was when I was preggo that I took the Billings training, and it has worked well for me. My second daughter I got preggo on the first go, and we are currently spacing the next one right now with no problems.

I think my problem was that I missed taking my temperature too many days Doesn't work unless you use it

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='prose' post='1275783' date='May 17 2007, 06:33 PM']I like it. Simple, straightforward. I couldn't seem to "get" the temp. method. Maybe I wasn't too smart I actually got pregnant on that method!! (Thank you God) It was when I was preggo that I took the Billings training, and it has worked well for me. My second daughter I got preggo on the first go, and we are currently spacing the next one right now with no problems.

I think my problem was that I missed taking my temperature too many days Doesn't work unless you use it [/quote]

That's probably how I'd be with Sympto-Thermal. Of course, anything is a little more difficult to learn when you're first coming off the pill, like I was, but I like Billings. I think the main thing, really, is to have a good instructor.

[Aloysius]

To me, "serious" and "grave" tend to be synonymous in moral theology, though I agree it should not have the connotation of life-threatening.

For instance, "grave matter" just means "serious matter"; "grave sin" means "serious sin"; it is mortal sin which really brings about the connotation of threatening to the life of the soul, and to me it'd be "mortally grave reasons" that would specify that only life-threatening reasons count.

That said, the ideal situation that one should work for, that one should attempt to approximate in all things possible, is that NFP not be necessary. It is an ideal to be approximated, so if it is not possible it is okay to use NFP, but NFP is not the ideal state of family planning; the ideal state of family planning is just the normal rythem of the marital embrace without worry or concern as to when the children would come (of course, this is only to be approximated as much as possible, if economic, health, or other [i]serious[/i] reasons prevent you from it, then it is morally acceptable)

But I understand "serious" from the standpoint of moral theology and all the connotations it carries there, which this artical articulates on pretty well it seems. But just because the situations of most couples in the modern world make them incapable of reaching close to that ideal state of marriage does not mean we should cease describing it as the ideal to be approximated, because that helps to inform the decisions one must make when they most compromise with that ideal for practical or pragmatic [i]prudential[/i] reasons. We should always understand that the ideal situation of marriage is one in which NFP would not be necessary, at all, that the husband and wife could simply engage in the conjugal act opento [i]and ready to take care of[/i] life. It helps to provide perspective even to those who must use NFP.

[Sojourner]

In a legal sense there is a distinction between serious and grave, at least when it comes to injuries. Grave would be life-threatening, while serious would be life-altering (in a negative sense).

I think you could say that all grave things are also serious, but not all serious things are grave. I suppose I bring a similar understanding to moral theology -- that the terms overlap, but are not synonymous.

But I could be wrong.

[Aloysius]

"grave matter" does not always refer to life-threatening matter. it is merely serious matter. though I suppose it might refer to how it is life-threatening to the soul or whatever.

But I tend to quite easily use the word "grave" to refer to "serious"

[N/A Gone]

I tend to think this is a serious and personal issue that can have and does have serious negative points to many couples. You almost get to the point of not wanting to have sexual touch for fear of sinning..Good ol catholic guilt I guess.

If the theology behind this is that the sexual act seperated from the creation act is wrong. then having sex on days of infertilitiy would be considered wrong. But that is the whole point of NFP.

I understand that artificial birth control is wrong, due to the harming of the woman and hurting the possibility of ever having children. But as far as "if" my wife and I will use NFP for how long, when and how. And how/when/if we have marital relations during that time I think that it is a situation that is between the couple and condemning theologians can booger off. All this does is harm the marital relations.

sorry, end/rant. Just having some issues with this right now.

[Aloysius]

I think it needs to be approached much more organically and personally than in the vacuum it is discussed in by moral theologians. it should be between the couple and a good pastoral priest that can be trusted.

it should not approach the guilt paradigm, IMHO, rather, it should be noted as a time when circumstances force you into the less-than-ideal situation (a situation in which you must abstain from sex during times of fertility is less than ideal, ideally the husband and wife should be able to engage in it at any time)... you know, it's not about guilt for using NFP but sadness at the imperfection caused by the circumstances in which you have to use it. I don't like the guilt paradigm too much (though it should be there as an absolute border lest you approach a contraceptive attitude in marriage), but more of this organic attempt to approximate the ideal in which you would not have to use NFP; a negotiation with the circumstances for how to preserve the loving relationship during times when the ideal cannot be approximated as well.

Spinning it around like that (almost has an eastern feel in the way I twisted that... or at least a Vatican II feel... "re-formulated postively", anyone?) I think is beneficial to how one looks at NFP; without going all the way over to "I'll use NFP when I want and how I want, bug off" (not intended at you, Rev, you just got the phrase 'bug off" in my mind) but also not going to "I feel so guilty when I'm using NFP"...

[N/A Gone]

Im just gonna need some time to spin this. Right now this is a problem for me. A fluffy theologian once told me if my heart screams loud enough about something dont let my intellect stand in the way.

[prose]

I teach NFP. I am sick of hearing the "contraceptive mentality" statement. It is such a blanket statement about ALL couples that most probably don't have "grave reasons". I am sick of it. Couples should be able to decide between themselves their reasons. It gets me even more angry when "holier than thou" people make couples feel guilty or like they are bad Catholics because they are choosing smaller families or delaying pregnancy.

This air that is going around of "if you are a good Catholic you should have 6-10 children" needs to stop. There are plenty of practicing, excellent Catholics postponing or avoiding pregancy.

One last thing. It also frustrates me that the people that scream the loudest about this are single men.

Now there is an /end rant.

[prose]

By the way, that was an EXCELLENT article!

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='prose' post='1279156' date='May 22 2007, 02:08 PM']One last thing. It also frustrates me that the people that scream the loudest about this are single men.

Now there is an /end rant.[/quote]

I have noticed that, too. (and I'm assuming here that you mean non-priest single men?)