Headcovering In Mass

[philosophette]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1274256' date='May 15 2007, 04:03 PM'] oh the trauma! they had to wear a head covering!

I don't think kleenex were silly at all... doing whatever it takes to follow a biblical mandate doesn't seem silly to me.[/quote]

Al, I generally agree with you, but some women did have terrible experiences because of it. Some felt terrified of entering the Church without at least a kleenex on their head lest they be struck dead or something. A lot of bad catechesis lead to a lot of negative experiences for many people.

I still want to how the mantilla became preferable to a scarf.

[alicemary]

Thank you, unless you lived through some of the experiences that people had, you should never trivialize them. Religion is about love of God, it does not have a thing to do whether my head is covered. Good Lord, aren't there enough things in this world to obsess over. And you stick a dirty old kleenex on your head, be a teenager, and have people point at you and laugh at you....and then we can talk. thanks philosobrat for grasping what I was trying to say.

[homeschoolmom]

If we are to have a head covering while praying and St. Paul tells us to pray without ceasing, what are we to do?

[alicemary]

maybe I am just different, but what covers my head does not equate what is in my heart. It certainly is not my priority to worry about externals in this point in my life. I do some of my best praying in my back yard, in a small area I have set aside for devotion. My church is locked most days, and never opened at night. If someone has the audocity to mandate my wearing a tattered kleenex on my head to express devotion, then guess what, I would rather pray in my back yard.

[philosophette]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1274447' date='May 15 2007, 08:18 PM']If we are to have a head covering while praying and St. Paul tells us to pray without ceasing, what are we to do?[/quote]

Obviously dress in a full hejab...

Now I think we should try not to let this topic fall into a big debate. No one wants that.

I am going to guess that the mantilla is Spanish in origin? It would be interesting to see a historical outline of women's church attire.

Edited May 16, 2007 by philosobrat

[Maggyie]

[quote name='philosobrat' post='1274466' date='May 15 2007, 09:46 PM']Obviously dress in a full hejab...

Now I think we should try not to let this topic fall into a big debate. No one wants that.

I am going to guess that the mantilla is Spanish in origin? It would be interesting to see a historical outline of women's church attire. [/quote]

I would be interested in a little "history of what we wear to Mass" too. Mantilla does sound like a very Spanish word...

[Ash Wednesday]

Wearing hats is really nice way to cover the head without feeling, well -- let's just say I have my mother's old white mantilla, but it's an odd size. I tried it on and I looked like the biggest dork in the world. Maybe because the old little thing needs to be ironed. I felt like I'd be so distracted by pulling it and pushing it into place and worrying about it rather than paying attention to mass, I haven't worn it.

In my experience, every woman I have met wearing a mantilla or insisted on covering their heads has been devout and humble. I have only seen it become an issue with people who don't wear them -- some people take offense -- unnecessarily so. I think the best route is to just let the tradition come back gently if it's God's will, and as people feel comfortable, as someone said before. Nobody has to look down on a woman if she chooses not to cover her head or isn't comfortable with it if it's completely foreign to her, NOR should people criticize a women that chooses to do this.

I admit that I haven't been the most observant about covering my head in the last couple of years. I was really good about it before my long hippy skirts got torn and shot to crizzap -- I would wear those to mass a lot with a beret or cloche hat. I'll have to try to get a couple more of those skirts. They're usually the only kind of skirt I can stand.

Interesting with those of you that have mentioned friends or family giving the double take when you choose not to go up to communion. I had a friend that was weirded out by my not going up as well a little while back when we were at mass together. It's weird to think that people take an issue for you NOT going up to communion. I knew this middle-aged German dude who grew up in a small Catholic Bavarian town and he said people would gossip if you didn't go up to communion, like "oh, why didn't Hans go up? He must have done something really bad!" But now if you don't go up, people just act like you are a total renegade freak, but for a completely different reason. Before it was "what kind of heathen are you?" and now it's "what kind of wacko holy roller are you?"

Edited May 16, 2007 by Ash Wednesday

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]Obviously dress in a full hejab... [/quote]

If the emoticon is referring to the covering of the face, you mean niqaab.

[i]Hijab[/i] usually refers to the covering of everything but the face, hands, and feet. To be totally gramatically correct, the word isn't used to mean a specific kind of clothing - more the state of being covered. There are different names for the actual garments themselves - jilbab, abaaya, shayla, milfeh, etc.

Ahhh, nothing like a lesson on Arabic grammar and vocabulary at 2:45am to stimulate the cerebral juices!

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1274526' date='May 15 2007, 09:45 PM']If the emoticon is referring to the covering of the face, you mean niqaab.

[i]Hijab[/i] usually refers to the covering of everything but the face, hands, and feet. To be totally gramatically correct, the word isn't used to mean a specific kind of clothing - more the state of being covered. There are different names for the actual garments themselves - jilbab, abaaya, shayla, milfeh, etc.

Ahhh, nothing like a lesson on Arabic grammar and vocabulary at 2:45am to stimulate the cerebral juices![/quote]
Well, aren't you a smarty boots?

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Not really. I grew up in Saudi Arabia, so I never really had to learn the language. It just sort of seeped in at the earholes.

[philosophette]

I know some Catholics who seem to think that I should be in both hejab and niqaab.

That is interesting that you grew up there. Is your family Saudi? Edited May 16, 2007 by philosobrat

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1274252' date='May 15 2007, 03:58 PM']Woman and girls took to carrying mantilla in their pocketbooks. And they certainly looked ratty and terrible after time. They had smaller ones, that do look like doilies that were easier to carry.[/quote]

I carry my mantilla in my purse at all times, and have been doing so for years. I keep it in a little ziplock bag folded up, or a little zipper compartment in my purse. It has never started looking ratty or terrible...

[puellapaschalis]

AFAIK, the mantilla vs scarf vs hat thing is a style question. The impression I've always had is that it was a fashion from the Med which kind of got tagged onto "Catholic". Certainly here it's a bit fancy and frilly, but then I'm surrounded by dour Dutchmen
I only wear a mantilla on Big Days. Otherwise it's a scarf tied round my head (behind my neck, not under my chin), and yes, I usually wear it all the time.

PP

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1274487' date='May 15 2007, 06:11 PM']Before it was "what kind of heathen are you?" and now it's "what kind of wacko holy roller are you?"[/quote]
pretty much

btw, my mom wears a hat almost every time she goes to Mass. i'm not sure if it's because of the Bible verse or because she just likes wearing hats

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1274463' date='May 15 2007, 09:39 PM']maybe I am just different, but what covers my head does not equate what is in my heart. It certainly is not my priority to worry about externals in this point in my life. I do some of my best praying in my back yard, in a small area I have set aside for devotion. My church is locked most days, and never opened at night. If someone has the audocity to mandate my wearing a tattered kleenex on my head to express devotion, then guess what, I would rather pray in my back yard.[/quote]
I don't see wearing the veil as necessary an "expression of devotion." It's easy to see it as something of a political statement these days, since it is rare to go to an average Novus Ordo parish and see a woman with her head veiled. When a woman does cover her head, it only makes sense to think the worst of her, as if she were doing it to say, "HEY LOOK AT HOW HUMBLE I AM." People are often surprised when I do not look down on others for not covering their heads. Don't get me wrong, I wish all women would cover their heads because all women are beloved daughters of God and ought to guard their glory. I wish women would see that they have something beautiful in them (which is a gift from God) that is worth guarding. But it surprises people when I say I do not think less of a woman who does not wear the veil, I only wish they would realize the gifts God has given them. To me, a veil is not really a sign of humility, as if to draw attention to one's virtue. Rather, the veil is a sign of feminine obedience to the Word of God, along with chastity.

I'll be honest here: few things motivate me more towards chastity than knowing that I wear a white veil on my head every Sunday and I want to live up to that.