Headcovering In Mass

[puellapaschalis]

I was interested to read alicemary's comments about examining one's reasons for covering one's head; the response that my mind came up with was that the reasons behind wanting to do this (or, I suppose, any other act of piety) can be many and varied. Certainly when I began wearing a headcovering in church I had a variety of reasons for doing so, some more honourable than others. Human beings are complex creatures (at least, please tell me I'm not the only one!) and in my experience we only rarely have [i]one[/i] nicely homogeneous set of reasons for anything.

So what if a woman, upon following alicemary's suggestion, searches her own heart and finds mixed answers? I would say be reassured by the good reasons and go for it anyway, praying about it all the while. Sometimes I wonder if the not-so-good reasons I find whilst examining myself aren't actually a kind of Distraction to keep me from doing something essentially good.

In terms of dealing with people's reactions (and there were some - in this country it's really not seen that often at all), I tried to remain who I was. I still grin at my friends if I see them in church, I'll lean over and whisper hello in greeting, I'll hug someone I haven't seen for a while and ask how they're doing just as I had always done before. Despite the ups and downs (and yes, they're there aplenty), wearing a covering is a [i]GOOD[/i] thing in my experience, a step towards Christ. If a woman can recognise that and live and wear a covering joyfully, then the surprise and shock of others will, I believe, quickly transform into acceptance.

PP

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]Just to touch on some of my toughts of focus at Mass and modest dressing, I think we need to work on getting girls to cover the rest of their bodies during mass let alone their heads. As a male, nothing is more distracting than having a half dressed, very attractive woman sitting 2 pews in front of you during Mass. We have to close our eyes for the entirity of mass.[/quote]

I agree whole-heartedly that the faithful should dress modestly for Mass. By the faithful, I mean men as well as women. No Catholic man should go to church in clothes that would be more suited to the beach either. As a community, I think we should all make an effort with our clothes for Mass. It's the best part of the week.

I never used to think like this. I wasn't aware of the sheer solemnity of the Mass, and when I did visit a Catholic church during my childhood (which happened about twice a year) I saw people wearing shorts and spaghetti straps frequently. In Arab countries the Catholic women dress modestly for Mass, but I just assumed that this was part of the wider Arab culture. It's only over the past few weeks that I've started to see that how you dress can be part of how you worship. (This idea came to me after I found out that Carmelite nuns have a set of special prayers related to their habit as they dress in the morning.) And so I designated one of my skirts as my 'Sunday skirt'. It's ankle-length, very swishy, and a real pain to iron as a result, especially as I'm incredibly clumsy, but going to all that trouble on Saturday evening makes me anticipate the Mass the next day. I treat it as part of my prayer time.

It's been a good thing for me. But dress code is not just a female issue. I think we need to work on getting guys to realise that.

Edited May 14, 2007 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1272601' date='May 13 2007, 03:56 PM']No, this is not another debate on whether women should wear veils during Mass. I am sure you will all be relieved to know that.[/quote]
yes, well, unfortunately every time one of these threads is created, it's never meant to be a debate, but it always ends that way

[quote name='alicemary' post='1272805' date='May 13 2007, 09:15 PM']Hey, quite frankly, people wear the darndest things to church these days, nothing seems strange.[/quote]
if anyone makes fun of you for wearing a head covering, just point to the nearest half naked girl or guy in shorts and flip flops and ask them why they don't have a problem with that kind of clothing

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1272880' date='May 14 2007, 05:28 AM']now maybe this thread and its companion can die slow, painless deaths before arguing on this topic ensues ...[/quote]
one can only hope in vain

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1272889' date='May 14 2007, 05:37 AM']

haha would I ever let this thread die a slow painless death? it's a topic that should be discussed.

well, I understand the reasoning, really I do. It's the same reasoning that makes me not want to stay back from communion when I go to church but am in mortal sin... you know, call attention to myself, blah blah blah. it all just amounts to an excuse, and the sooner the ice is broken on this particular issue in the pews at every mass, the better off the faithful will be. that's what I'd see you as doing, not being the drawer-of-attention unto yourself, but breaking the ice on an issue that more and more girls are starting to say "I'd like to start doing that, but would feel weird"

people who give mean looks about it are just being plain sinful, honestly. it's not your attitude that'd be holier than thou, but your essence, because they are just being mean-spirited; they have absolutely no grounds for giving you mean looks about it.[/quote]
al, i think if anyone wants further enlightenment on this subject, they should go to [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=63947"]THIS THREAD[/url] where you and Jeff discuss this in a historical sense. [b]That[/b] thread was very edifying for me, and i'm sure others.

[Aloysius]

yeah, for the debate one whether it's required go there. we hashed that out fairly thoroughly.

but for the "I want to do it but people will look at me funny" people, this is my advice; purely detached from my opinion that it is required et cetera and simply responding to their desire to do it.

it is the same reasoning I have used in the past when I was afraid to stay back for Holy Communion: people would think I'm trying to be too holier-than-thou... ie, they've assuredly done the same types of sins I have done so they're going to look at me like I'm just being overly-humble about it and I should just lighten up and do what they do; they might feel inadequate about their own spiritual life seeing me abstain from the eucharist if I do no more sins, as far as they know, than them. this happened with my brother once, who asked me why the heck I didn't go up for holy communion. it's the exact same type of thing, it calls attention to yourself, singles you out and highlights you when you're trying to do an act of humility and don't want to be highlighted for it. that doesn't mean you don't do it just because people are going to have that reaction... it seems every woman in the whole Church could be convinced that wearing veils was an aid to their prayers and still no one would wear one, each afraid of the others' reactions. the ice has to break somewhere, if you really think this sacramental is important.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Something really amazing happened tonight. I had draped my scarf over my head for Mass, as planned. Afterwards one of my friends came up to me and said quietly, "Vicky, I thought I'd ask..." and she dropped her voice to a whisper.

Her question was, "Have you ever thought of wearing a mantilla?"

It turns out that she has been feeling a call to wear one herself ever since the summer. The sight of my adapted headcovering in Mass had prompted her to ask me about it. (It turned out that my usual shawl was more conspicuous than the mantilla would have been. ) I was able to give her the details of a place where she will be able to order one and we are planning to go to Mass together in our mantillas on Sunday. What a relief, and so kind of God.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1272604' date='May 13 2007, 08:02 PM']With all the girls I've heard say the exact same thing, who's to say one of them doesn't have some big mantilla back under the boxes in their closet and are saying "oh, if I wore it, I'd feel out of place"... it's entirely likely, there are lots of girls out there who come to that point where they'd like to do it but would feel uncomfortable.[/quote]

I feel that in the interest of Christian Charity I should not utter the words "I told you so"

lol :

[HeavenlyCalling]

I am really glad that I am not the only one who thinks about this!!! I have one ( a very pretty one too, if I do say so myself) but I usually only wear it to adoration and funerals. There is a girl from my parish that wears hers when she comes home from college, and I dont think she has gotten any confrontation about it. Some times I wear my head scaft ( used for very bad hairdays) which people are a little more used to seeing me in. Honestly, I have come to the opinion that someones clothing shouldn't really be distracting in Church. It may bother you, but I think it is fairly easy to get over it and focus on the mass, not on what the person in front of you has on.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1273170' date='May 14 2007, 12:18 PM']yeah, for the debate one whether it's required go there. we hashed that out fairly thoroughly.

but for the "I want to do it but people will look at me funny" people, this is my advice; purely detached from my opinion that it is required et cetera and simply responding to their desire to do it.

it is the same reasoning I have used in the past when I was afraid to stay back for Holy Communion: people would think I'm trying to be too holier-than-thou... ie, they've assuredly done the same types of sins I have done so they're going to look at me like I'm just being overly-humble about it and I should just lighten up and do what they do; they might feel inadequate about their own spiritual life seeing me abstain from the eucharist if I do no more sins, as far as they know, than them. this happened with my brother once, who asked me why the heck I didn't go up for holy communion. it's the exact same type of thing, it calls attention to yourself, singles you out and highlights you when you're trying to do an act of humility and don't want to be highlighted for it. that doesn't mean you don't do it just because people are going to have that reaction... it seems every woman in the whole Church could be convinced that wearing veils was an aid to their prayers and still no one would wear one, each afraid of the others' reactions. the ice has to break somewhere, if you really think this sacramental is important.[/quote]
and to add: i think it's more that family would say something than strangers. when i've stayed back from the Eucharist, it was my family who looked at me strangely and said something to me. (who then kind of scoffed when i told them i hadn't been to Confession). strangers haven't said a thing. could it be that people who are apprehensive are afraid of their pride taking a hit when family says something to them about it?

[Aloysius]

yes, for me it is mostly family too. on a couple occassions it's been oblivious/pushy ushers (I was in the first pew, the only one in the first pew, and they were like motioning me to come again and again, they did not understand why I would not come and finally just went to the second pew.

[Totus Tuus]

When I first started wearing a mantilla I felt a little bit out of place, but I don't even think about it anymore. It's good to be able to explain to people why you wear one in case they ask.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1273170' date='May 14 2007, 03:18 PM']it's the exact same type of thing, it calls attention to yourself, singles you out and highlights you when you're trying to do an act of humility and don't want to be highlighted for it. that doesn't mean you don't do it just because people are going to have that reaction... it seems every woman in the whole Church could be convinced that wearing veils was an aid to their prayers and still no one would wear one, each afraid of the others' reactions. the ice has to break somewhere, if you really think this sacramental is important.[/quote]

Exactly. And I remember a while back when jiyoung made a really good statement about mantillas in one of the threads in which we were discussing it. She said something to the effect that sometimes it is bad for people to attract attention to themselves, and sometimes it is not (and sometimes it is good). Her example was
women who dressed immodestly. If their cleavage is what is attracting attention, that's bad. If her mantilla is Mass (which she is wearing out of a [i]good[/i] motive) is attracting attention, that's [i]not bad[/i]. I don't understand why so many people use the argument that

Mantillas attract attention
Therefore,
Mantillas are bad.

You would have to admit that any time you attract attention you are doing something wrong for that statement to be true...

Edited May 15, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[philosophette]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1272871' date='May 14 2007, 08:05 AM']Thank you for all the good advice. Last night I decided, after hearing somebody else's sensible take on the matter, not to obsess over it but to just gently slip into the tradition without causing waves. I am going to start covering my head with one of my scarves or shawls during Mass. I nearly always have a shawl of some kind draped round my shoulders, so people are used to seeing me with one. At the beginning of Mass I will unobtrusively draw it up over my head, just as I do when I'm praying privately in chapel.

Once I've got acclimatised to this, I will 'graduate' to my mantilla on Sundays. I don't feel quite ready to dash into church with that on my head yet. I want to explore the custom in more depth first.[/quote]


I have a question: Does anyone know why there is a preference for a lacy black/white mantilla over a solid scarf...? I have always wondered. I personally like something not lace because it is just too "foo-foo" for me, but wearing a non-lace head covering seems even more of an event than a mantilla.

Also I never understood the doilies that people wear on top of their heads - where did those come from ?

***Please note: I am ASKING not accusing, or looking for a debate.***

Thank you.

[alicemary]

Back when I was young, it was mandatory you cover your head in church. Woman and girls took to carrying mantilla in their pocketbooks. And they certainly looked ratty and terrible after time. They had smaller ones, that do look like doilies that were easier to carry. As I said in an earlier email, often gals would be wearing a kleenex on their head...now that was so stupid, but we felt we 'had' to cover our heads. I know alot of Italians who cover their heads still, with brightly covered scarfs. In this day and age, I say do what you want. Just make sure you have good intentions by wearing a head covering. Most people I know would not be caught dead in one. People my age have trauma from being forced to wear things when they were younger, so I would never wear something again like that. As an adult, I am not into the physical aspects of prayer...it is my heart that Jesus is interested in, not what I am wearing on my head.

[Aloysius]

oh the trauma! they had to wear a head covering!

I don't think kleenex were silly at all... doing whatever it takes to follow a biblical mandate doesn't seem silly to me.