Is Confessing Your Sins To A Priest Blasphemy?

[Katholikos]

GodChaser,

You proved the need for confession -- you confessed your addiction to pornography to the whole phatmass congregation. But that wasn't your only sin. Humans need to unburden themselves. If you had made a full and complete confession to a priest, he could have given you absolution. He could have also given you advice about your addiction to help you eradicate the root cause. Most addicts (of anything) relapse without a support system. Your sins would be wiped out. We can't do that for you. Did you hear God say, "I forgive you"? You'll never know for sure. You can only assume -- and hope.


QUOTE

WHO NEEDS A PRIEST

Non-Catholics often object that the priest is unnecessary in this process [confession and forgiveness], that Christians can confess their sins directly to God. No doubt we can, but we cannot be assured of forgiveness unless we go about our confession in the way that God Himself intended.

. . . Christ is still the priest behind the priest. . . Saint John Chrysostom in the fifth century wrote that "Priests have received a power which God has not given either to angels or archangels , , , they are able to forgive our sins."

END QUOTE

From [i]Lord, Have Mercy [/i]by Scott Hahn, former Presbyterian minister and Bible scholar, Catholic convert and now Professor of Biblical Theology at Franciscan University.

Peace,

Likos

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1270663' date='May 10 2007, 08:17 PM']GodChaser,

You proved the need for confession -- you confessed your addiction to pornography to the whole phatmass congregation. But that wasn't your only sin. Humans need to unburden themselves. If you had made a full and complete confession to a priest, he could have given you absolution. He could have also given you advice about your addiction to help you eradicate the root cause. Most addicts (of anything) relapse without a support system. Your sins would be wiped out. We can't do that for you. Did you hear God say, "I forgive you"? You'll never know for sure. You can only assume -- and hope.
QUOTE

WHO NEEDS A PRIEST

Non-Catholics often object that the priest is unnecessary in this process [confession and forgiveness], that Christians can confess their sins directly to God. No doubt we can, but we cannot be assured of forgiveness unless we go about our confession in the way that God Himself intended.

. . . Christ is still the priest behind the priest. . . Saint John Chrysostom in the fifth century wrote that "Priests have received a power which God has not given either to angels or archangels , , , they are able to forgive our sins."

END QUOTE

From [i]Lord, Have Mercy [/i]by Scott Hahn, former Presbyterian minister and Bible scholar, Catholic convert and now Professor of Biblical Theology at Franciscan University.

Peace,

Likos[/quote]

Actually, God speaks through his spirit, through his word to our spirits. I can't hear the lord's voice in an audible way, but when I read the scripture I can feel it's truth moving in me, changing me, or I might get an insight when I am reading certain scriptures. When I read about cunning craftsmen in the bible, or the parable of the talents, I know God is calling me to go further into my computer programming, design, and story telling training, to be a video game designer.

I don't need a man's abosolution at all, only knoweldge of the word and what it says.

The word says -

[quote name='"1 John 1' date=' KJV"']That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

[b]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.[/b][/quote]

Where does it say, if we confess our sins to a priest, but it says confess.

I am pretty open that I am a recovering porn addict, because I know what it's root cause in me is, I am a weak, sinful human being. I have a sin nature, and it is ever with me. I know, though, that the more I walk in the light, the more God's word will give me victory over this part of my life, and victory in every part of life, actually.

[Socrates]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1270672' date='May 10 2007, 08:35 PM']Actually, God speaks through his spirit, through his word to our spirits. I can't hear the lord's voice in an audible way, but when I read the scripture I can feel it's truth moving in me, changing me, or I might get an insight when I am reading certain scriptures. When I read about cunning craftsmen in the bible, or the parable of the talents, I know God is calling me to go further into my computer programming, design, and story telling training, to be a video game designer.

I don't need a man's abosolution at all, only knoweldge of the word and what it says.

The word says -
Where does it say, if we confess our sins to a priest, but it says confess.

I am pretty open that I am a recovering porn addict, because I know what it's root cause in me is, I am a weak, sinful human being. I have a sin nature, and it is ever with me. I know, though, that the more I walk in the light, the more God's word will give me victory over this part of my life, and victory in every part of life, actually.[/quote]
You have still ignored the words of Jesus Christ Himself to His Apostles in John 20:23:
[quote][b]Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.[/b][/quote]

[dairygirl4u2c]

I think he's saying if you baptize you forgive, if you don't, you withhold forgiveness. Which is an explanation I have never heard before, but interesting.

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1270675' date='May 10 2007, 08:41 PM']You have still ignored the words of Jesus Christ Himself to His Apostles in John 20:23:[/quote]
Uh huh.

You can base almost any kind of doctrine on a single scripture.

Doesn't mean it is the truth. Sorry Socrates, I don't think the each apostle could have handled over 50,000,000 believers by the end of the first century confessing their sins.

We're talking 60,000 in Jerusulem alone! 12 men listening to 60,000 men + women and children which weren't numbered confess their sins, they wouldn't have had any time to preach, go out perform miracles, and all the other stuff found in the book of acts!

As Judge Judy puts it, what you're saying doesn't make sense, and if it doesn't make sense, it isn't the truth.

[jeffpugh]

GodChaser, it is good that you are bringing your concern out front here. But, John:20:23 is the institution of confession when Christ breaths The Spirit on the apostles. Can't been any more sure about it than that. Also, confession is mentioned by St James in his letter (James 5:16). Confessing sins is also in the Pentateuch...

Does anyone know the prayer of absolution off hand? I know for sure that it involves words such as "by the power of God" and "The Father, Son and Holy Spirit"... It's totally NOT relying on a human here but God through a human instrument. Even those who baptise are instruments... you believe that, don't you?

Keep up the search man.

God Bless.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1270687' date='May 10 2007, 10:58 PM']Uh huh.

You can base almost any kind of doctrine on a single scripture.

Doesn't mean it is the truth. Sorry Socrates, I don't think the each apostle could have handled over 50,000,000 believers by the end of the first century confessing their sins.

We're talking 60,000 in Jerusulem alone! 12 men listening to 60,000 men + women and children which weren't numbered confess their sins, they wouldn't have had any time to preach, go out perform miracles, and all the other stuff found in the book of acts!

As Judge Judy puts it, what you're saying doesn't make sense, and if it doesn't make sense, it isn't the truth.[/quote]

Umm... 50,000,000... is that a typo? I know there wasn't even that many in Rome in the first Century. In fact, Christians were heavily persecuted... many suffered crucifixion (such as Peter), being pressed under doors, stoning... you name it, they prolly did it... the numbers are way out of proportion my friend. Not a fan of Judge Judy here, but I gotta use her line in the right context... besides all that what does it matter if there are unspeakable members lining up for confession? Looks like they need more priests....

[mortify]

GC wrote:

[quote]You can base almost any kind of doctrine on a single scripture.[/quote]Have you considered that about your own doctrine?

[quote]Doesn't mean it is the truth. Sorry Socrates, I don't think the each apostle could have handled over 50,000,000 believers by the end of the first century confessing their sins.[/quote]

Jesus handled it by ordaining the Apostles. Bishops handle it by ordaining priests, thus the authority to forgive sins is dispersed via holy orders.

[RezaMikhaeil]

The scriptures say that we should confess our sins to one another, traditionally the church [atleast I know orthodox churches] used to confess our sins publically, but that became a problem and so it was moved to be private. It still doesn't mean that we shouldn't confess our sins to one other, just not air our dirty laundry out to the whole world.

Why a human being rather then just God in our bedrooms? It has to do with humbling ourselves, I'd found that it's very simple to confess my sins to God privately, to my wife a little bit more difficult but still not that tough, but to someone outside of my immediate family, particularly someone that I admire and respect, extremely difficult but very humbling. We also confess our sins to our priest [speaking from orthodox perspective] because it's not just about confessing our sins to one another, but to get on the right track. A priest is the shephard of his flock, it's his job to help you get through your problems. If you have a problem with sins, such as pornography [as you mentioned above God-chaser], then the Priest can help you battle through this, by suggesting a lifestyle change, etc.

Reza

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1270701' date='May 10 2007, 11:15 PM']The scriptures say that we should confess our sins to one another, traditionally the church [atleast I know orthodox churches] used to confess our sins publically, but that became a problem and so it was moved to be private. It still doesn't mean that we shouldn't confess our sins to one other, just not air our dirty laundry out to the whole world.

Why a human being rather then just God in our bedrooms? It has to do with humbling ourselves, I'd found that it's very simple to confess my sins to God privately, to my wife a little bit more difficult but still not that tough, but to someone outside of my immediate family, particularly someone that I admire and respect, extremely difficult but very humbling. We also confess our sins to our priest [speaking from orthodox perspective] because it's not just about confessing our sins to one another, but to get on the right track. A priest is the shephard of his flock, it's his job to help you get through your problems. If you have a problem with sins, such as pornography [as you mentioned above God-chaser], then the Priest can help you battle through this, by suggesting a lifestyle change, etc.

Reza[/quote]
Yes I think it was a public ordeal in the Latin rite till some crazy Irish monks (in the 8th C?) came with the formula of a private confession and penance. I agree with the fact that the priest is our shepherd and is here to help us out, especially through confession. A friend said to me once that it is like going there to sharpen your sword: whet your blade so you can keep fighting those demons. It's great stuff. I try and confess monthly. I seriously need it...

[TotusTuusMaria]

[center]J.M.J.[/center]
[quote name='GodChaser' post='1270687' date='May 10 2007, 09:58 PM']Uh huh.

You can base almost any kind of doctrine on a single scripture.[/quote]

So your admitting, that by that particular verse, confession can actually be proved as being instituted by Christ. Yes, you are. You are just justifying it away by saying, "Well, you can base almost any kind of doctrine on a single scripture."

[quote]Doesn't mean it is the truth. Sorry Socrates, I don't think the each apostle could have handled over 50,000,000 believers by the end of the first century confessing their sins.[/quote]Justifying it away again? "Doesn't mean it is the truth. Yeah, it is there, but that doesn't mean it is the truth! It is right there in the Bible, but that doesn't mean it is the truth!" Good one.

[quote]We're talking 60,000 in Jerusulem alone! 12 men listening to 60,000 men + women and children which weren't numbered confess their sins, they wouldn't have had any time to preach, go out perform miracles, and all the other stuff found in the book of acts!

As Judge Judy puts it, what you're saying doesn't make sense, and if it doesn't make sense, it isn't the truth.[/quote]

Well, it does make sense.

St. Paul was at Ephesus, [b]"many of them that believed came confessing and declaring their deeds" (Acts 19:18)[/b]

St. John says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just, so as to forgive us our sins" (1 John 1:9)

In the early Church public confession and public penance were demanded for very grave sins, such as idoltry, adultery, and murder. Absolution and readmittance to Holy Communion came at the end of the long and severe penance, and was given publicly by the bishop on Holy Thursday. Private absolution was given only on deathbeds. Pope Leo the Great (d. 461) changed public confession to private confession, although the system of public penance still went on.

Some Protestants like to say that Pope Innocent III imposed the obligation of confessing one's sins in 1215. But Pope Innocent only just enforced the obligation that one must confess at least once a year. Since the earliest times of the Church the authority given to the Apostles and handed down to their successors to forgive sins in the name of Christ has been recognized. This can be proven because the schismatic Churches of the East, although they separated from the Western Chuch in the fifth century, agree with her in the doctrine on confession. This goes to show that universally every Christian acknowledged the Confession of one's sins. It has been a Christian doctrine since the very beginning!

And as to the lack of Apostles, you forget that the Apostles handed on the priesthood instituted by Christ, and in turn they handed on the powers they had received from Christ to their assistants and successors. The first ordination is in the Bible. It took place in Jerusalem. Seven Deacons/ministers were ordained. "And they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas, a proselyte of Antioch. These they set before the Apostles: and they praying, imposed hands upon them." (Acts 6:5-6) And then again Paul and Barnabas were consecrated bishops at Antioch: "Fasting and [i]praying and imposing their hands upon them[/i], they sent them away" (Acts 13:3). Paul and Barnabas, in their turn, ordained priests to take their place in the Christian communities which they had founded, "And when they had ordained priests in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord" (Acts 14:23)

See! It makes perfect sense! It all fits together. So, I guess according to Miss. Judy it would be truth, eh? Because it all makes sense does it not?

God love you!

In Jesus and Mary,
Marie

I was flipping through one of my fav. books, and I have this whole paragraph underlined in it. I love the way this is expressed.

"The desire to receive the Sacrament of Penance, may be, like the desire to receive Baptism, explicit or implicit. Hence Catholics do not deny that God is ready to forgive the sins of non-Catholics who are in good faith and who turn to Him in loving sorrow. But the Protestant doctrine that confession of mortal sin is not an absolute duty imposed by the law of Christ, or that absolution is a benefit which the penitent is not absolutely bound to seek, is opposed to Catholic faith and practice from the very beginning of Christianity." - Fr. John Laux, M.A.

Edited May 11, 2007 by TotusTuusMaria

[prose]

[quote]Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight, and I am no more worthy to be called your son.
­ Luke 15:21

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.
­ Romans 3:23-25

Jesus said, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me."
­ John 14:6

In [Jesus Christ]we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.
­ Colossians 1:14

Then Jesus said to [His apostles], "Peace be unto you; as my Father has sent me, even so send I you. And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them: "Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose soever sins you remit, they are remitted, and whose soever sins you retain, they are retained".
­ John 20:12, 22-23[/quote]

Edited May 11, 2007 by prose

[prose]

Prayer of absolution:

God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of His Son
has reconciled the world to Himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us
for the forgiveness of sins;
Through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace,
and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1270693' date='May 10 2007, 09:08 PM']Umm... 50,000,000... is that a typo? I know there wasn't even that many in Rome in the first Century. In fact, Christians were heavily persecuted... many suffered crucifixion (such as Peter), being pressed under doors, stoning... you name it, they prolly did it... the numbers are way out of proportion my friend. Not a fan of Judge Judy here, but I gotta use her line in the right context... besides all that what does it matter if there are unspeakable members lining up for confession? Looks like they need more priests....[/quote]
No, there was, according to one source I had read.

And it was because of all those persequtions.

Remember, the Gospel had spread much farther than rome, including asia minor.

There was probably 50,000,000 believers back then, because God works quick for those who love him.

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1270693' date='May 10 2007, 09:08 PM']Umm... 50,000,000... is that a typo? I know there wasn't even that many in Rome in the first Century. In fact, Christians were heavily persecuted... many suffered crucifixion (such as Peter), being pressed under doors, stoning... you name it, they prolly did it... the numbers are way out of proportion my friend. Not a fan of Judge Judy here, but I gotta use her line in the right context... besides all that what does it matter if there are unspeakable members lining up for confession? Looks like they need more priests....[/quote]
No, there was, according to one source I had read.

And it was because of all those persequtions.

Remember, the Gospel had spread much farther than rome, including asia minor.

There was probably 50,000,000 believers back then, because God works quick for those who love him.