Super Gods And Arch Villians

[carrdero]

There are many people who have faith in God and or Jesus. Now in order for this faith of good and justice to work, the same person must have faith in villains for their deities. Demons and devils have been assigned as the spiritual arch enemies that seem to foil the attempts and even the faith for these Gods and angels.

In today’s day and age is there any evidence why one should actually believe in demons or evil spirits or are they just a by-product of a primitive, irrational culture?

Are these spirits actually evil or are they just misunderstood? Are they just mischievous?

Can we have faith in powerful gods of good alone or do we need these evil rivals to verify our faith?

If the battle between good and evil is fought is between these spiritual BEings what does this have to do with us? Has the outcome already been decided? If our gods and heroes are that powerful, that virtuous, why do demons and villains and evil still exist? Are these same gods allowing demons to exist for our benefit? Does this make the gods as depraved as the villains? What could humans possibly contribute to this battle between good and evil?

Are humans also considered a threat or a nemesis to our faithful gods?

Edited May 10, 2007 by carrdero

[Paladin]

You're speaking of Manichaeism, my friend. Good does not need evil to exist to be good. Evil itself is simply the rejection of good, the absence of it. Free will demands that good cannot be forced upon us, so evil is our own selection of something other than good. God is good because good is God; God is the author and definition of good. When something rejects God, it is evil.

[GodChaser]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1269625' date='May 9 2007, 07:33 PM']There are many people who have faith in God and or Jesus. Now in order for this faith of good and justice to work, the same person must have faith in villains for their deities. Demons and devils have been assigned as the spiritual arch enemies that seem to foil the attempts and even the faith for these Gods and angels.

In today’s day and age is there any evidence why one should actually believe in demons or evil spirits or are they just a by-product of a primitive, irrational culture?

Are these spirits actually evil or are they just misunderstood? Are they just mischievous?

Can we have faith in powerful gods of good alone or do we need these evil rivals to verify our faith?

If the battle between good and evil is fought is between these spiritual BEings what does this have to do with us? Has the outcome already been decided? If our gods and heroes are that powerful, that virtuous, why do demons and villains and evil still exist? Are these same gods allowing demons to exist for our benefit? Does this make the gods as depraved as the villains? What could humans possibly contribute to this battle between good and evil?

Are humans also considered a threat or a nemesis to our faithful gods?[/quote]
Your mind is so dark, I could hardly believe what I was reading.

I don't think any answer will suffice for you. I can say without a doubt, My lord, god, and saviour Jesus Christ could throw all these evil devils into the bottomless pit without breaking a sweat, but hes a God who loves us enough to say, hey son, lets get this mess cleaned up together.

It's called good parenting.

Psychologists say, for a parent to teach a child responsibility, instead of scolding them for making a mistake and cleaning it up yourself, you teach your child what they have done is wrong, and then you and the child clean it up.

That is why a child who spilt some pop/milk/juice/water should wipe up the liquid with paper towels the parent gives them.

It is the same with God. God needs to show us we have sinned (spilt stuff onto our clean white robes), then he provides what we can't reach for to clean up (Jesus Christ - the sinless sacrifice for sin - whose blood makes us whiter than snow), so we can then live lives for the Father through the Christ!

But since God is not your father, as he is mine, you don't realize who he is, and he is just some abstract idea, which shows you are in complete darkness.

[carrdero]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1270168' date='May 10 2007, 03:39 PM']Your mind is so dark, I could hardly believe what I was reading.

I don't think any answer will suffice for you. I can say without a doubt, My lord, god, and saviour Jesus Christ could throw all these evil devils into the bottomless pit without breaking a sweat, but hes a God who loves us enough to say, hey son, lets get this mess cleaned up together.

It's called good parenting.

Psychologists say, for a parent to teach a child responsibility, instead of scolding them for making a mistake and cleaning it up yourself, you teach your child what they have done is wrong, and then you and the child clean it up.

That is why a child who spilt some pop/milk/juice/water should wipe up the liquid with paper towels the parent gives them.

It is the same with God. God needs to show us we have sinned (spilt stuff onto our clean white robes), then he provides what we can't reach for to clean up (Jesus Christ - the sinless sacrifice for sin - whose blood makes us whiter than snow), so we can then live lives for the Father through the Christ!

But since God is not your father, as he is mine, you don't realize who he is, and he is just some abstract idea, which shows you are in complete darkness.[/quote]
So does this mean that you think God and Satan can maturely, peacefully reconcile their differences?

Edited May 11, 2007 by carrdero

[GodChaser]

No.

Again, you show very little understanding between God and the Devil.

I was talking about God's relationship with humanity. The devil has already made up his mind to try to overthrow God, which has resulted in his defeat. Him and his stupid little minions who decide to believe him will be thrown in a burning lake of fire at the end of this conflict, and the humanity who has decided to give themselves totally to God will rejoice the victory God has provided for us.

That won't be you, unless you decide to make Jesus Christ your lord and saviour, and do everything the Bible tells you to do.

[Paladin]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1270168' date='May 10 2007, 04:39 PM']But since God is not your father, as he is mine, you don't realize who he is, and he is just some abstract idea, which shows you are in complete darkness.[/quote]
I'd watch your words and thoughts, friend. You're not his bishop; you're in no position to judge his soul, lest you yourself be judged.

[carrdero]

[quote name='Paladin' post='1270086' date='May 10 2007, 01:41 PM']You're speaking of Manichaeism, my friend. Good does not need evil to exist to be good. Evil itself is simply the rejection of good, the absence of it. Free will demands that good cannot be forced upon us, so evil is our own selection of something other than good. God is good because good is God; God is the author and definition of good. When something rejects God, it is evil.[/quote]
Of all the responses I received from other forums, you are the second person to mention Manichaeism which is a good enough reason for me to realize that this warrants further investigation.

[quote]Paladin writes: I'd watch your words and thoughts, friend. You're not his bishop; you're in no position to judge his soul, lest you yourself be judged.[/quote]

Thanks for the assist.

Edited May 11, 2007 by carrdero

[carrdero]

[quote]Godchaser writes: Again, you show very little understanding between God and the Devil.[/quote]

Well I would like to believe I have a good understanding of GOD but I have never met Satan or any of his minions which is the reason why I am seeking understanding.

Edited May 11, 2007 by carrdero

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1270168' date='May 10 2007, 04:39 PM']Your mind is so dark, I could hardly believe what I was reading.

I don't think any answer will suffice for you. I can say without a doubt, My lord, god, and saviour Jesus Christ could throw all these evil devils into the bottomless pit without breaking a sweat, but hes a God who loves us enough to say, hey son, lets get this mess cleaned up together.

It's called good parenting.

Psychologists say, for a parent to teach a child responsibility, instead of scolding them for making a mistake and cleaning it up yourself, you teach your child what they have done is wrong, and then you and the child clean it up.

That is why a child who spilt some pop/milk/juice/water should wipe up the liquid with paper towels the parent gives them.

It is the same with God. God needs to show us we have sinned (spilt stuff onto our clean white robes), then he provides what we can't reach for to clean up (Jesus Christ - the sinless sacrifice for sin - whose blood makes us whiter than snow), so we can then live lives for the Father through the Christ!

But since God is not your father, as he is mine, you don't realize who he is, and he is just some abstract idea, which shows you are in complete darkness.[/quote]

Whoa, good call there, GodChaser.

[quote name='carrdero' post='1271310' date='May 11 2007, 04:10 PM']Well I would like to believe I have a good understanding of GOD but I have never met Satan or any of his minions which is the reason why I am seeking understanding.[/quote]

Okay. I can help here. The devil is a spirit... in fact he was an angel. The thing about angels is that they don't have "bodies" like you and I... so they way they learn is through using their whole being. Same with making decisions. They are very smart creatures because they can learn things instantly (though they still don't understand certain habits of us humans). Anywho when they make a decision to do evil, that is go against God totally, they do it with their whole being, thus they become purely evil. There is no room for the Devil/demons to reconcile themselves to God because that is an act of good, and thus it goes against their being. A bit of tricky stuff here, but I hope it helps.

[carrdero]

What I find interesting about the book of Genesis is that even though the origin of the earth and humans are explained, there is no origin story of how the devil came to be until later in the Bible. When the Bible speaks of the events of the Garden of Eden one can perceive the nature of the players but one doesn’t really get a full understanding where this serpent came from, why it’s talking or what it’s relationship to God is.

[quote]Sacred Music Man writes: Anywho when they make a decision to do evil, that is [color="#000080"]go against God totally[/color], they do it with their whole being, thus they become purely evil.[/quote]
[b]"[i]And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." -- Job 1:7[/i][/b]

In the book of Job, God and Satan are wagering the faith of the servant Job. God has [b][i]permitted[/i][/b] Satan to make Job’s existence miserable. I’m not about to assume that the devil and God are in "cahoots" but I can also not agree that Satan “[color="#000080"]went against God totally[/color]”

In the story of the Garden of Eden the devil is a central character to the story. It is not like this serpent was deceiving Adam and Eve after God turned it's back. God knew exactly why the serpent was allowed to be in the Garden Of Eden.

There are also references in the Bible that God has accumulated quite a body count. Though it is impossible to say for sure, from the information that the Bible provided, someone actually calculated the deaths by God’s hand to be about 2,270,365 men, women and children. The Bible puts a great deal of emphasis on the power, anger, jealousy and wrathfulness of God but the evil nature of Satan is reduced to a BEing who is just a teaser or a tormentor which to me implies mischievous, not maliciousness. Which also makes me wonder if the devil and his minions are even effective or efficient at all to God's plan or purpose. Who (as humans) should we be more afraid or concerned about? If it is God that warrants all of our fear and awe why does the concept and competition of devils and demons exist at all?

[quote]Sacred Music Man writes: Whoa, good call there, GodChaser.[/quote]

I am not aware of any parents who kill their children out of disobedience but I will admit that GodChaser certainly has a way with metaphors.

Edited May 12, 2007 by carrdero

[GodChaser]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1271752' date='May 12 2007, 05:30 AM']What I find interesting about the book of Genesis is that even though the origin of the earth and humans are explained, there is no origin story of how the devil came to be until later in the Bible. When the Bible speaks of the events of the Garden of Eden one can perceive the nature of the players but one doesn’t really get a full understanding where this serpent came from, why it’s talking or what it’s relationship to God is.
[b]"[i]And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." -- Job 1:7[/i][/b]

In the book of Job, God and Satan are wagering the faith of the servant Job. God has [b][i]permitted[/i][/b] Satan to make Job’s existence miserable. I’m not about to assume that the devil and God are in "cahoots" but I can also not agree that Satan “[color="#000080"]went against God totally[/color]”

In the story of the Garden of Eden the devil is a central character to the story. It is not like this serpent was deceiving Adam and Eve after God turned it's back. God knew exactly why the serpent was allowed to be in the Garden Of Eden.

There are also references in the Bible that God has accumulated quite a body count. Though it is impossible to say for sure, from the information that the Bible provided, someone actually calculated the deaths by God’s hand to be about 2,270,365 men, women and children. The Bible puts a great deal of emphasis on the power, anger, jealousy and wrathfulness of God but the evil nature of Satan is reduced to a BEing who is just a teaser or a tormentor which to me implies mischievous, not maliciousness. Which also makes me wonder if the devil and his minions are even effective or efficient at all to God's plan or purpose. Who (as humans) should we be more afraid or concerned about? If it is God that warrants all of our fear and awe why does the concept and competition of devils and demons exist at all?
I am not aware of any parents who kill their children out of disobedience but I will admit that GodChaser certainly has a way with metaphors.[/quote]
Question 1 - has Satan rebelled agaisnt God and is against God
Answer 1 - Yes.

Question 2 - Does God use Satan to achieve his purposes.
Answer 2 - Yes.

Question 3 - Should we have the fear (reverance) of God.
Answer 3 - Yes.

Question 4 - Why is the concept and competition of devils and demons exist at all?
Answer 4 - Because it is real, and we need to take authority over them in the holy name of Jesus Christ.

[quote name='Psalms 91:13' date=' JPS']Thou shalt tread upon the lion and asp; the young lion and the serpent shalt thou trample under feet.[/quote]

I tread on the devil ever single day, and I am glad to do it! He can lick the dirt off my shoes.

General Comment - God did not kill Jesus Christ. You did, I did, everybody on this board did. We were sinners, and we needed a sinless sacrifice, so God gave us the Christ to believe in and trust in. God takes your thoughts about his son's death very seriously.

Your thoughts are so darkened! I don't understand why Dust allows this tripe to continue!

Your father is not the God of Christianity, because your questions would be answered if you diligently searched the scriptures!

Edited May 14, 2007 by GodChaser

[toledo_jesus]

There are nuts all over this board.

[jeffpugh]

Hahaha... Hardly. We're just unique.

[GodChaser]

carrdero, If you really want to know [url="http://movies.goodnewsjournalist.com/satan.html"]Who Satan is Really[/url], check the link out.

[carrdero]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1279610' date='May 22 2007, 11:42 PM']carrdero, If you really want to know [url="http://movies.goodnewsjournalist.com/satan.html"]Who Satan is Really[/url], check the link out. [/quote]
Actually I was giving the benefit of the doubt to both BEings. I was thinking more along the lines of something like this.

[img]http://www.geocities.com/sonofcardero/heaven.jpg[/img]

Even in comics, Gods and Villians usually ally themselves to vanquish a common foe.