Ordaining Women Is Disrespectful

[jeffpugh]

Scholar: Ordaining Women Is Disrespectful
Says Promotion of Female Priests Overemphasizes Masculinity

ROME, MAY 4, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Those who want to ordain women to the priesthood manifest a failure to recognize the dignity of women, said an expert in moral theology and women's issues.

Pia de Solenni asserted this during her April 27 conference at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross in Rome.

De Solenni won the Pontifical Prize of the Academies in 2001, receiving an award from John Paul II for her doctoral thesis on St. Thomas Aquinas. She is the director of Life and Women's Issues at the Family Research Council in Washinton, D.C.

At the conference, de Solenni used St. Thomas' arguments to analyze the issue of the ordination of women to the priesthood in light of the natural complementarity between the sexes.

St. Thomas taught that woman was not created from man's head in order to rule over him, nor from his foot to be ruled by him, but from his side in order to rule with him, she explained.

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis

The 1994 Vatican document "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis" concentrates on three basic points, de Solenni explained: "Christ, in ordaining only men, acted freely without constraints by cultural norms; nonadmission to the priesthood is not a sign of lesser dignity; the Church does not have the faculty to ordain women."

De Solenni illustrated the first point saying that many claim Christ ordained only men because of the cultural norms of his day. Since the role of women has changed, some say the Church should also adapt and allow women to be ordained to the priesthood, she said.

De Solenni contended, however, that the Gospels show how Christ often broke with the cultural norms of his day: In fact, it was to the Samaritan woman at the well that he revealed himself clearly as the Messiah -- to her as to no other, she said.

Equal dignity

"Ordinatio Sacerdotalis" points out that the non-admission of women to the priesthood does not signify a lesser dignity. The entire history of the Church, said de Solenni, "witnesses to the presence and active participation of women."

"It was the consent, understanding and devotion of a woman that brought the Church to us," and the fact that the Virgin Mary was not chosen by her son to be a priest "indicates that the sacrament does not discriminate on the basis of dignity or merit," de Solenni explained.

De Solenni reiterated a point from "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis" which says the question of women's vocations should not be confined to ordination.

"Woman will never be the bridegroom, in any form. The temptation to force upon women a masculine paradigm arises from our confused notions of power and authority which, in turn, devalue her vocation as a bride, clearly illustrated by Mary," de Solenni said.

Ordaining a woman, she said, "would be, in essence, to show complete disregard for the reality she is as a woman, as a bride."

Masculine vs. feminine

De Solenni asserted: "The promotion of ordaining women to the priesthood is a sign of misunderstanding and even disrespect for the dignity of woman."

The fact that "the significance of the feminine identity is so largely misunderstood or even disregarded, indicates that our very notion of Church is in peril, has lost personality. She has become an 'it,' a mere institution, rather than a living being," de Solenni added.

The discussion of ordaining women to the priesthood has been a sort of "overemphasis of the masculine," she said.

"No doubt," continued de Solenni, "women need a voice in the Church, but it must be an authentic voice and not their voice made to sound like a man's."

Women, she stated, have a unique role in the Church and in society and that role should not be forced into masculine paradigms. "To do so," she said, "runs the risk of losing what is truly feminine -- not the femininity of fashion, but the varied femininity of women saints, whose personalities and strengths span just as far as those of men saints … if not more."
ZE07050410

[color="#8B0000"]Debate. Whats good about this article? what's not so good? Any points to make? Just to name a few things to start... I know it's always a hot topic...[/color]

[Sojourner]

I totally agree with this.

Women need to fully embrace and value their femininity, and pushing for women's ordination is a denial of the essential beauty and goodness of woman. I don't know if I've argued that here before but it's an argument I've made often off PM.

[carrdero]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1268285' date='May 8 2007, 06:13 PM']I totally agree with this.

Women need to fully embrace and value their femininity, and pushing for women's ordination is a denial of the essential beauty and goodness of woman.[/quote]
How do you figure?
[quote]Terra Firma writes: I don't know if I've argued that here before but it's an argument I've made often off PM.[/quote]
I haven't been here in awhile so could you review this argument for me please.

[jeffpugh]

Sounds like a good idea. I concur with Terra on this one btw.

[The Joey-O]

First of all, I'd like to say outstanding article!

I'm currently writing a paper that is supposed to evaluate the logic of the church's insistance that men and women can be different but equal. De Solenni will be very useful in this regard. While I genuinely agree with the article, there are a few things I don't understand.

[quote]"Woman will never be the bridegroom, in any form. The temptation to force upon women a masculine paradigm arises from our confused notions of power and authority which, in turn, devalue her vocation as a bride, clearly illustrated by Mary," de Solenni said.

Ordaining a woman, she said, "would be, in essence, to show complete disregard for the reality she is as a woman, as a bride."
[/quote]Is the Bride/Bridgroom language not just analogy? I understand that it reveals an amazing amount of truth about the relationship of God and the Church, but why does the masculine/feminine seperation have to hold? It seems a little bit like making more out of the analogy than is there.

I agree that there are significant differences between men and women. Those differences are complimentary. Wouldn't it then be good to have a feminine voices heard in some official capacity? If priesthood isn't the means to hear the female voice of the church, then what else does one propose? The author rightly says that the feminine voice has its own dignity, complimentary to Man's and should have an expression:

[quote]"No doubt," continued de Solenni, "women need a voice in the Church, but it must be an authentic voice and not their voice made to sound like a man's."[/quote]

If men and women are meant to rule together, as different but equal, how will women rule?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1268268' date='May 8 2007, 04:51 PM']Scholar: Ordaining Women Is Disrespectful
Says Promotion of Female Priests Overemphasizes Masculinity

ROME, MAY 4, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Those who want to ordain women to the priesthood manifest a failure to recognize the dignity of women, said an expert in moral theology and women's issues.

Pia de Solenni asserted this during her April 27 conference at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross in Rome.

De Solenni won the Pontifical Prize of the Academies in 2001, receiving an award from John Paul II for her doctoral thesis on St. Thomas Aquinas. She is the director of Life and Women's Issues at the Family Research Council in Washinton, D.C.

At the conference, de Solenni used St. Thomas' arguments to analyze the issue of the ordination of women to the priesthood in light of the natural complementarity between the sexes.

St. Thomas taught that woman was not created from man's head in order to rule over him, nor from his foot to be ruled by him, but from his side in order to rule with him, she explained.

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis

The 1994 Vatican document "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis" concentrates on three basic points, de Solenni explained: "Christ, in ordaining only men, acted freely without constraints by cultural norms; nonadmission to the priesthood is not a sign of lesser dignity; the Church does not have the faculty to ordain women."

De Solenni illustrated the first point saying that many claim Christ ordained only men because of the cultural norms of his day. Since the role of women has changed, some say the Church should also adapt and allow women to be ordained to the priesthood, she said.

De Solenni contended, however, that the Gospels show how Christ often broke with the cultural norms of his day: In fact, it was to the Samaritan woman at the well that he revealed himself clearly as the Messiah -- to her as to no other, she said.

Equal dignity

"Ordinatio Sacerdotalis" points out that the non-admission of women to the priesthood does not signify a lesser dignity. The entire history of the Church, said de Solenni, "witnesses to the presence and active participation of women."

"It was the consent, understanding and devotion of a woman that brought the Church to us," and the fact that the Virgin Mary was not chosen by her son to be a priest "indicates that the sacrament does not discriminate on the basis of dignity or merit," de Solenni explained.

De Solenni reiterated a point from "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis" which says the question of women's vocations should not be confined to ordination.

"Woman will never be the bridegroom, in any form. The temptation to force upon women a masculine paradigm arises from our confused notions of power and authority which, in turn, devalue her vocation as a bride, clearly illustrated by Mary," de Solenni said.

Ordaining a woman, she said, "would be, in essence, to show complete disregard for the reality she is as a woman, as a bride."

Masculine vs. feminine

De Solenni asserted: "The promotion of ordaining women to the priesthood is a sign of misunderstanding and even disrespect for the dignity of woman."

The fact that "the significance of the feminine identity is so largely misunderstood or even disregarded, indicates that our very notion of Church is in peril, has lost personality. She has become an 'it,' a mere institution, rather than a living being," de Solenni added.

The discussion of ordaining women to the priesthood has been a sort of "overemphasis of the masculine," she said.

"No doubt," continued de Solenni, "women need a voice in the Church, but it must be an authentic voice and not their voice made to sound like a man's."

Women, she stated, have a unique role in the Church and in society and that role should not be forced into masculine paradigms. "To do so," she said, "runs the risk of losing what is truly feminine -- not the femininity of fashion, but the varied femininity of women saints, whose personalities and strengths span just as far as those of men saints … if not more."
ZE07050410

[color="#8B0000"]Debate. Whats good about this article? what's not so good? Any points to make? Just to name a few things to start... I know it's always a hot topic...[/color][/quote]
Good article. I agree 100%

This lady spoke at a Christendom College conference last summer, but I didn't attend.

[RezaMikhaeil]

I was curious does Roman Catholics ordain deaconesses?

[Sojourner]

Joey have you read any of the Theology of the Body? It seems that would be useful for you in exploring the bridegroom/bride analogy more fully as well as understanding why the masculine/feminine separation.

The bride/bridegroom analogy is one that's used throughout Scripture ... Scripture begins with a marriage (Adam and Even) and ends with a marriage (Christ and the Church) and Christ in his sacrifice explains fully the role of God in this parable. He is the initiator, giving a gift of his entire self to woo his Bride and to give her a path to union with him. The idea is that the Bride is open to receiving the love of the Groom, and in response gives fully of herself to him. The mutual free, total, and faithful gifts of self then leads to new life ... fruit. The analogy is patterned over and over again in our sacraments: each of the seven sacraments represents God initiating a gift of himself, and the Bride opening to receive the grace of that gift, and to respond in loving thankfulness. This same pattern is reflected outside the church in any marital relationship (or should be) ... that in the very stuff of our bodies is stamped a reminder of the relationship of God to humanity. When you mess with the pattern, the message is distorted ... it no longer tells the same story.

With regard to your other question, Joey, about an official role for women as a voice in the church ... I have wondered the same thing. I have tossed around a couple of ideas in the past but nothing seems to fit. But that does seem to be an area that needs to be explored.

Carrdero ... my point is that God creates men and women to complement one another, each with his or her own inherent dignity, equally strong and beautiful. As I explained above, men as priests illustrate vividly the relationship of God to man, but women have an equal worth and dignity and goodness that I think needs to be more fully explored. We find our worth not by pursuing that which God has given man, but to understand what is inherently good and beautiful about being a woman, to understand the strength that lies in the "genius of woman," as John Paul II says.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1268412' date='May 8 2007, 09:45 PM']I was curious does Roman Catholics ordain deaconesses?[/quote]

Negative.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1268412' date='May 8 2007, 09:45 PM']I was curious does Roman Catholics ordain deaconesses?[/quote]
No. But I ask if you could share the role of deaconesses in your Rite, if you please .

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1268412' date='May 8 2007, 08:45 PM']I was curious does Roman Catholics ordain deaconesses?[/quote]

Do my understanding even our universal un-divided church never laid the hands on women.

[The Joey-O]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1268433' date='May 8 2007, 09:03 PM']Joey have you read any of the Theology of the Body? It seems that would be useful for you in exploring the bridegroom/bride analogy more fully as well as understanding why the masculine/feminine separation.[/quote]

I don't own a copy, but I have read exerpts from it.

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1268433' date='May 8 2007, 09:03 PM']The bride/bridegroom analogy is one that's used throughout Scripture ... Scripture begins with a marriage (Adam and Even) and ends with a marriage (Christ and the Church) and Christ in his sacrifice explains fully the role of God in this parable. He is the initiator, giving a gift of his entire self to woo his Bride and to give her a path to union with him. The idea is that the Bride is open to receiving the love of the Groom, and in response gives fully of herself to him. The mutual free, total, and faithful gifts of self then leads to new life ... fruit. The analogy is patterned over and over again in our sacraments: each of the seven sacraments represents God initiating a gift of himself, and the Bride opening to receive the grace of that gift, and to respond in loving thankfulness. This same pattern is reflected outside the church in any marital relationship (or should be) ... that in the very stuff of our bodies is stamped a reminder of the relationship of God to humanity. When you mess with the pattern, the message is distorted ... it no longer tells the same story.[/quote]

Ok. So the analogy has been elevated to a higher regard than most biblical analogies and I'm sure with good reason. I'll press the issue, then for clarity's sake:

1. It seems that since Christ gave his life to the whole church and calling all Christians to do the same when he says "take up the cross and follow me", one would conclude that Christ called all to act in the manner of bridegroom. This is not to deny that all are to act in the manner of Bride as well, being ever open to Christ as a vessel of grace. If all can act as bridegroom in this sense, why can't all act as bridegroom in the sense of becoming a priest?

2. Please explain how the following sentence is wrong (I know it is, I just don't know why):
If we believe (a) that the nature of priesthood is bridegroom and therefore masculine and not suitable for women to hold, then logically we should believe (b) that the nature of the Church is bride and therefore feminine and suitable for men to hold.

I'm really not trying to be antagonistic. I'm currently reading what the church says on this subject, I'm just trying to get pointed in the right direction.

Edited May 9, 2007 by The Joey-O