Confession Model In The Domestic Church

[Aloysius]

I had a thought...

What value do you think there could be to establishing a confession-model in the domestic church of the family? ie, the child may come to the parent, request a "confession", and anything the child reveals the parent cannot use against the child in official discipline or reveal to anyone else; but the child must express contrition and the parent help him, give him prayers to say, and tell him if he needs to go to receive sacramental confession before the next mass.

there could even be some special blessing the parent gives the child after he's expressed his remorse, et cetera... maybe even that the parent gives the child a specific penance.

but like, the idea would be that the one parent could not tell the other one; but could make it part of the penance that the child himself tell the other parent, of course. but the parent couldn't say "you're grounded" or whatever, he couldn't impose a discipline because that would breach this promise, this domestic-church-seal-of-confession... discipline like that would be left to things the parents find out independently without the child confessing to them

I'm always coming up with interesting ideas.. hehe... discuss.

[Dreamweaver]

I'm not sure how it would work for all cases. If the child stole a toy or something, would it be considered punishment to tell the child to return it to the rightful owner? On the otherhand, if the child "confesses" being angry or upset with someone, and has contrition, punishment in the form of a timeout would seem unnecessary, since they have already learned their lesson.

Its an interesting idea though.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1266378' date='May 6 2007, 09:25 PM']I had a thought...

What value do you think there could be to establishing a confession-model in the domestic church of the family? ie, the child may come to the parent, request a "confession", and anything the child reveals the parent cannot use against the child in official discipline or reveal to anyone else; but the child must express contrition and the parent help him, give him prayers to say, and tell him if he needs to go to receive sacramental confession before the next mass.

there could even be some special blessing the parent gives the child after he's expressed his remorse, et cetera... maybe even that the parent gives the child a specific penance.

but like, the idea would be that the one parent could not tell the other one; but could make it part of the penance that the child himself tell the other parent, of course. but the parent couldn't say "you're grounded" or whatever, he couldn't impose a discipline because that would breach this promise, this domestic-church-seal-of-confession... discipline like that would be left to things the parents find out independently without the child confessing to them

I'm always coming up with interesting ideas.. hehe... discuss.[/quote]

ya know... I can't think of all the possible scenarios, so I couldn't say for sure, but first impression leaves me liking this a lot. Good stuff. I wonder though about the healthiness of keeping (potentially) large secrets involving their children from their spouse. And the relationship of a parent to a child if the child seems to show more confidence in one parent by going to this parent instead of the other for said "confession."

Edited May 7, 2007 by goldenchild17

[Aloysius]

just like a priest can impose a penance of turning themself into the police, the parent could impose a penance of telling the other parent if it were something serious enough that both parents should know. the child could ask the parent to tell the other parent if he did not want to do it himself.

but it would be a penance, not an official punishment. it would be up to the child to do it... if he did not fulfill the penance, the parent would have a talk with him about why he was not doing it, but there would be no forcing as there is in normal punishment.

the sort of "blessing" in the place of where absolution comes in the sacrament would be understood as being conditional to if the child was really sorry and really intended to amend the wrong he did... he would understand the blessing to be 'invalid' if he was really harboring an intent not to go out and do the penance and not to amend his wrong.

I could see that preference thing, maybe... but I think it'd still be a good thing even if the child showed preference to one parent over the other. usually that happens to some degree, from what I understand... the younger children almost always prefering the mother to the father and then as the males grow up they go over to the father.

but I mean, if child A was playing ball in the house and broke mom's favorite trinket, child A would go to confess to dad; dad would say, well, we'll just buy a new one and pretend it never happend ... lol jk, dad would say something like first pray to the Blessed Mother and St. Ann and then you have to tell your mother what happened and that you're sorry and won't play ball in the house again... I'll come with you to tell her if you want.

[goldenchild17]

I got ya. Makes sense and I think it's a good idea.

[Paddington]

Isn't there a model of parental responsibilty already present that would negate the idea? And spouse-to-spouse?

"Sure Joey. Go off into that occasion of sin that we've never discussed in normal conditions. Be home for dinner."

"No spouse. I'm not worried about anything. If I were, it wouldn't concern you."

I'm not saying that I'm right. Just giving you some anti thoughts.

[Aloysius]

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that one spouse would be less informed about what the child's needs are because they don't know about some things he has done wrong?

I think that's all negated by the idea that 1, if it's a serious enough matter you'd have the child tell the other parent and 2, anything the child reveals in this 'confession' is something he is truly sorry for and wants to make right;and 3, neither parent would necessarily know about it if not for this confession thing anyway... what would otherwise not have been known by either parent is now known and dealt with by one parent.

[Paddington]

Aloysius,

I think you make great points. They really got my attention.

Umm.....I think that if a parent messes up with the wrong penance, they could be faced with a serious conflict of interest. Perhaps a conflict that is un-Catholic in nature for a parent. (you would know better than me.)
Even if they regularly give "tell the other parent"........what if the other parent is not home yet? And the kid (being a sinner) wants to go have his occasion for sin? The penance did not include "stay at home til your dad gets home." (It could have, but it didn't.) Isn't the mom stuck with saying what she would've said without the confession?
Also, what if the kid doesn't even do the penance? It would be impossible to check up on that one, wouldn't it? It would be impossible to not think about it either.

Also...is there any reason to think this would be any better than just striving to set appropriate boundaries and keep the lines of communication open with your children? My guess is that one can only guess. And I guess that it would feel more natural without the model. What is wrong with just going to Confession as a family with a lil pre-Confession counseling?

Peace,
Paddington

[LouisvilleFan]

Interesting concept, but I think it's entirely impractical. Confession works for people with a conscience, which is something kids are developing, but not enough to be aware of right and wrong and the underlying reasons why they sin. It's like giving a baby food without cutting it up into little pieces... not gonna do any good. The concept of "I have sinned and deserve punishment" is foreign to children. They think they are always right, which is why parents need to take charge, call their kids out when they're wrong, make them apologize, and do time out or whatever. This is how children eventually develop a good conscience so that when it comes time to start receiving the sacrament of Confession, they are able to prepare properly.

Without a conscience, there isn't sorrow, and without sorrow, there isn't a desire or appreciation for Confession. Kids (like some adults) would just take advantage of the Confession model thinking they can get into trouble without punishment.

[Aloysius]

Well, when they reach the Age of Reason they know right and wrong, basically. I think you're giving kids after the age of reason (generally 7) too little credit, if that's who you're applying your statement to.

It's not that there wouldn't be punishment, it'd be that if they came to you and expressed regret and knowledge that it was wrong, there would be penance instead of formal punishment (unlike with the priest who deals with many people a day, you can keep track of whether the child actually does the penance much better); formal punishment would come if you found out about something without the child coming to you.

the child would have to make restitution for his wrongs no matter what, but it'd be a question of is he is also punished for it by the types of arbitrary punishments parents establish.

children have consciences, and this would just be another form of helping those consciences form.

[kateri05]

i don't like the idea of spouses keeping things from each other AT ALL.

my two cents

[friendofJPII]

This would never work. First of all, parents are going to have natural reactions/emotions when they hear their child did something wrong. If they didn't they wouldn't be normal. And some serious offenses need to be punished accordingly. If the child knows he can confess it and get away with it, he will see family confession as nothing more than a get out of jail free card. And while we should be open with our spouses, sometimes it is best not to tell them [i]everything.[/i] For example, if a husband had lustful thoughts his wife's best friend, he would really be better off just going to sacramental confession. And if the parents implemented this model in the wrong way, the child may grow up with a great disdain for the sacrament and/or the Church.

[Aloysius]

I absolutely disagree with what you said there and think it would have the exact opposite effect than you describe.

The child can't just confess it and get away with it, the parent would enforce the "penance" more directly than an anonymous priest would be permitted to do by the actual sacramental seal of confession. In effect, it would be a type of punishment; but one that strengthens the child's

If you've ever watched super nanny, you realize: a parent should not have emotional reactions to a child doing something wrong, that reinforces the child simply seeing the parent's punishment as arbitrary anger; when a parent calmly assesses the situation and dispenses punishment accordingly, the child actually begins to see that it's not just mommy or daddy getting mad, it's not the playing of some game, there's a real objective thing at work, and in it he is clearly in the wrong. the calm, cool, collected, and direct approach really works. For the most part, this is how my parents always dealt with me; not with ridiculous emotional reactions that simply escalate situations; but with understanding, forgiveness, and reasonable punishment. It definitely works. It is the emotionalist reactions of immature parents in the modern age that tend to most escalate trouble in family situations.

sometimes the child would turn himself in in this manner, and when he did that: there'd be penance (enforced penance, mind you) rather than punishment. when the child does not turn himself in, there is punishment; giving the incentive for the child to turn himself in and try to make amends for something he knew he did wrong. but it would never be considered a "get out of jail free card"... it might turn into a "pray the rosary every day for a week with dad instead of be grounded for the weekend" card, though, which I think would foster an openness in the lines of communication and really help the kid to understand taking responsibility, fessing up, and voluntarily trying to fix the situation rather than being thrown into an arbitrary punishment every time he does something wrong (which can really turn into a self sustaining system of the child acting out, getting grounded, acting out, getting grounded...)

let's stick to talking about the husband-wife one in the other thread. they're really two very different things.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1430359' date='Dec 5 2007, 10:47 PM']I absolutely disagree with what you said there and think it would have the exact opposite effect than you describe.

The child can't just confess it and get away with it, the parent would enforce the "penance" more directly than an anonymous priest would be permitted to do by the actual sacramental seal of confession. In effect, it would be a type of punishment; but one that strengthens the child's

[b]Unless you are raising ready-made saints, most young children operate via the pleasure principle. If they know confessing a sin will result in any unpleasant consequence, they won't fess up.[/b]

If you've ever watched super nanny, you realize: a parent should not have emotional reactions to a child doing something wrong, that reinforces the child simply seeing the parent's punishment as arbitrary anger; when a parent calmly assesses the situation and dispenses punishment accordingly, the child actually begins to see that it's not just mommy or daddy getting mad, it's not the playing of some game, there's a real objective thing at work, and in it he is clearly in the wrong. the calm, cool, collected, and direct approach really works. For the most part, this is how my parents always dealt with me; not with ridiculous emotional reactions that simply escalate situations; but with understanding, forgiveness, and reasonable punishment. It definitely works. It is the emotionalist reactions of [b]immature parents in the modern age that tend to most escalate trouble in family situations.
[b]
[b]True, parents[b] shouldn't have intense emotional reactions to their children's wrong doing, but the fact of the matter is, they [i[b]]do.[/i] [/b][/b] And honestly, if my child told me that he just set his sister's hair on fire, I'd have a hard time keeping calm.[/b] Honestly, I don't feel you are making a clear distinction between penance and punishment. Can you clarify?[/b][/b]

sometimes the child would turn himself in in this manner, and when he did that: there'd be penance (enforced penance, mind you) rather than punishment. when the child does not turn himself in, there is punishment; giving the incentive for the child to turn himself in and try to make amends for something he knew he did wrong. but it would never be considered a "get out of jail free card"... it might turn into a "pray the rosary every day for a week with dad instead of be grounded for the weekend" card, though, which I think would foster an openness in the lines of communication and really help the kid to understand taking responsibility, fessing up, and voluntarily trying to fix the situation rather than being thrown into an arbitrary punishment every time he does something wrong (which can really turn into a self sustaining system of the child acting out, getting grounded, acting out, getting grounded...)

[b]I don't understand how you could tell your child to pray a Rosary instead of punishing them. And what if the child begins to view the Rosary as a punishment?Again it depends on the severity of the offense. And in reality, how long will this model last? As children enter adolescene, they naturally want to separate themselves from their parents somewhat....most would be uncomfortable confessing certain sins to their parents. I'd be a little concerned about the teen who desires to tell their parents everything. This could lead to unhealthly attachments.[/b]
l
et's stick to talking about the husband-wife one in the other thread. they're really two very different things.[/quote]

Edited December 6, 2007 by friendofJPII

[Aloysius]

unhealthy attachments? I'm a firm believer in what anthropologists term "dependence training" in child rearing, which goes on in small scale societies in the raising of children; but what my anthropology professor calls "inter-dependence" training... what we do, called "independence training" by anthropologist, my anthropology professor calls "co-dependency training"

what you just said just smacks to me of the "independence training" model, which in effect does produce co-dependent adults because the parents raise them with such a concern to avoid "unhealthy attachments" that they raise them in a situation where they don't have to depend on anyone within the family, this leaves a hole which they spend the rest of their lives trying to fill, usually with unhealthy co-dependent relationships as adults. the family structure ought to operate within a context of inter-dependence, which is the only way someone growing into adulthood can form true independence in society free from the pressures of the market, their peers, and the searching for a co-dependent significant other.

I don't see any way in which a child's willingness to discuss absolutely everything and anything with their parents in any way establishes unhealthy attachments. I think it reinforces the inter-dependency of the family which will strengthen the person's ability to go out into the world and be independent.

of course it depends on the severity of the offense: penances would range anywhere from prayers, seen to be about healing the damage caused and including prayers for the healing of any problems caused by the wrongdoing; to reparation, ie they have to actively make up for damage done, et cetera; to any sort of thing... the concept would be that it is not an imposed punishment for the sake of punishment, but something that a truly sorry child would want to do to win back the trust of his parents, something the parent tells the child to do because it will help to heal the damage caused by the wrongdoing; it will inherently be a less severe thing than it would have been had the child been found out without him confessing.

[quote]Unless you are raising ready-made saints, most young children operate via the pleasure principle. If they know confessing a sin will result in any unpleasant consequence, they won't fess up.[/quote]
see my comment on the incentive for them to fess up. of course, if they're not going to fess up, you're in no different a situation than if you had simply not had this confessional model to begin with, the child will attempt to hide his wrongdoing and you'll have to find it out and punish him accordingly, and at that time you ought to make it clear that if he had fessed up, things would have gone a lot better for him.