dairygirl4u2c Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 How many years should someone go to jail for committing murder? I didn't take your poll. I think it's inane. Likos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted May 6, 2007 Author Share Posted May 6, 2007 (edited) you admit it's murder, but you don't want to take the poll... so do you think our criminal justice system is inane? or do you feel there are others who are more qualified to determine this? would you not vote if i asked how many years for plotting and then killing someone? or would you rather not face the difficult issue of quantifying these things? i'm completely lost as per your comments, they seem more inane then the simple question. but i might be missing something. Edited May 6, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 (edited) if abortion were made illegal in the US, the case should resolve in the abortionist going to prison, not the woman (since he/she is the one committing the murder). we'd be looking at an almost insurmountable obstacle to making abortion illegal if we pledge to be imprisoning woman. That wont fly to well. But since the woman is not the one physically doing the act, she should not be the one going to jail. Of course, it would all depend on the level of involvement, just like in a typical murder case. Edited May 6, 2007 by Didymus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Katholikos' post='1265856' date='May 6 2007, 11:06 AM']How many years should someone go to jail for committing murder?[/quote] I've never heard of a woman who performs a surgical abortion on her own child. Correct me if I'm wrong, I dont see how it's physically possible Of course, it's a whole different story if a woman chemically aborts her child. She would then be guilty of murder, and would be liable to punishment as well as the one who marketed the abortificient. Edited May 6, 2007 by Didymus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Didymus, I have to disagree. If we want abortion to stop we must root it out at all levels. It is murder and so it should have a sentence that fists with murder. We must also be willing to make adoption and resources available so that the choice is not the "best" one. You can't fight this by leaving the women with no responisbility for a crime. The men who get them pregnant must be sought out and made to pay as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 I agree that we can't leave them without responsibility, but the left stereotypes us as having no compassion for some of the women who are actually in a terrible and tragic predicament. To be claiming that these women will go to prison wont move the movement forward and will feed to the false stereotype we already have. However, if we honestly evaluated the fact that the abortionist is the one actually committing the crime, then we can start from there and move on to address how culpable the woman actually is. Like you said, the man must have some responsibility as well; also in the cases where the parents want the abortion and the girl may not have really made up her own mind. These must all be taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1265936' date='May 6 2007, 12:29 PM']you admit it's murder, but you don't want to take the poll... so do you think our criminal justice system is inane?[/quote] No, inane is the wrong word for it. I used to work in it. I called it the criminal [u]in[/u]justice system. In criminal court, it isn't about justice at all, but about winning and losing, power and weakness. [quote]or do you feel there are others who are more qualified to determine this? would you not vote if i asked how many years for plotting and then killing someone? or would you rather not face the difficult issue of quantifying these things?[/quote]In a republic, elected representatives make these decisions. I haven't been elected. [quote]i'm completely lost as per your comments, they seem more inane then the simple question. but i might be missing something.[/quote] Legislators (elected) and judges (some are elected, some appointed, in my state they're appointed first, then confirmed by election) are the competent (or incompetent, depending on your POV) authorities for determining such matters. Your question assumes that ordinary citizens make these decisions. We don't. So it's an inane question, IMO. Regarding Didymus' comment, If abortion were illegal and deemed to be murder (fat chance!), and if the criminal laws operative in my state were applied, both the doctor who performed the abortion and the mother who presented herself for the procedure, knowing it would result in the death of her child, would both be guilty of murder and liable for the punishment prescribed in law. Likos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farglefeezlebut Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 To add to what has already been said, there is no blanket sentence for "ordinary" murder. It depends on the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 The guilt of such a murder should be a life sentence. The woman who openly allows a doctor to perform an abortion is helping commit the murder and is also guilty. Anyone who takes part in helping the occurence of an abortion is guilty of taking part (in some level or other) in that murder, including nurses, the men who have encouraged the woman to obtain an abortion (fathers, the man who got the woman pregnant) ect.. I believe the correct term would be accesory to murder or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertwoman Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Word. Many females who have had abortions already feel the guilt of having it done. There isn't a day that goes by without them thinking of what they done to the little one, and how would their son or daughter would have looked like if they didn't go through with the abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezaMikhaeil Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 [quote name='Didymus' post='1265995' date='May 6 2007, 11:25 AM']if abortion were made illegal in the US, the case should resolve in the abortionist going to prison, not the woman (since he/she is the one committing the murder).[/quote] The woman is the accomplice to murder thou, and can be charged as such and possibly the master mind, as it was her idea for going to the abortionist to begin with, it's like hiring a hitman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 [quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1266196' date='May 6 2007, 05:11 PM']The woman is the accomplice to murder thou, and can be charged as such and possibly the master mind, as it was her idea for going to the abortionist to begin with, it's like hiring a hitman.[/quote] yes, but read the rest of my posts The woman is often coerced by family and the father of the child. It's not as easy as comparing it to an accomplice or hiring a hitman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezaMikhaeil Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 [quote name='Didymus' post='1266243' date='May 6 2007, 04:45 PM']yes, but read the rest of my posts The woman is often coerced by family and the father of the child. It's not as easy as comparing it to an accomplice or hiring a hitman.[/quote] ... I don't see no difference. Alot of people that were executed for war crimes following WWII claimed that hitler would have killed them, if they didn't "do it". Reza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Death Penalty for the abortionist, life without parole for the woman (unless she was coerced against her will) and anyone else who coerced, supported, or paid for the abortion. (Know that will probably never be politically feasible - but let's not pussyfoot around it, this is a serious crime being commited.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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