Missing Mass Is A Mortal Sin Yes Or No?

[reyb]

[indent]Therefore, missing a mass is a venial sin?[/indent]

[Sojourner]

[quote name='reyb' post='1290185' date='Jun 7 2007, 09:21 AM']Therefore, missing a mass is a venial sin?[/quote]
it can be, or it can be a mortal sin, depending on the attendant circumstances

[reyb]

[indent]Terra Firma,

When it will become a mortal sin and when it will be a venial sin?[/indent]

[reyb]

[indent]White Knight,
The tile : Missing Mass Is A Mortal Sin Yes Or No?, Without a serious reason, is basically a Mortal Sin. What do you mean by 'basically a mortal sin'?[/indent]

[LouisvilleFan]

It's funny that such a simple question has required four pages of discussion.

Is it serious matter? Yes.

Did you know that this is serious matter? If yes, then mortal. If no, then venial... and for future reference, you know now.

Did you have the intention of attending Mass? Or, did you miss because of circumstances outside of your control? If no, then mortal. If yes, then no sin was committed.

I guess that last one can have a lot of grey areas, but I think if you're really that worried about, just mention it in Confession and it's done with.

[reyb]

[indent]I think, it is not that simple. if we will consider the definition of sin according to Catechism of the Catholic Church. It seems that grave sin is not mortal sin.[/indent]

[Sojourner]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1291631' date='Jun 9 2007, 11:10 PM']It's funny that such a simple question has required four pages of discussion.

Is it serious matter? Yes.

Did you know that this is serious matter? If yes, then mortal. If no, then venial... and for future reference, you know now.

Did you have the intention of attending Mass? Or, did you miss because of circumstances outside of your control? If no, then mortal. If yes, then no sin was committed.

I guess that last one can have a lot of grey areas, but I think if you're really that worried about, just mention it in Confession and it's done with.[/quote]
I agree.

I think it is this simple. Nicely put.

[reyb]

[indent]May I post my reason?[/indent]

[reyb]

[indent]Just for reference:[/indent]

[indent]Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 2181
[color="#0000FF"]The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.119 Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a[b] grave sin[/b]. [/indent][/color]

[indent]Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1854
[color="#0000FF"]Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. [b]It is corroborated by human experience[/b]. [/indent][/color]

[indent]Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1858
[color="#0000FF"]Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: [b]murder is graver than theft.[/b] One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger. [/indent][/color]

[reyb]

[indent]Sin in itself is a subject that needs further studies nevertheless, let us consider the definition of sin and the gravity of consequences in relation to the weight of obligation by the catholic faithful to participate in the Eucharist in accordance with the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, in order to arrive into a conclusion whether missing a mass is a mortal sin or not.

Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph 2181 (CCC pp 2181) is self-explanatory declaring those who deliberately fail to participate in a mass commit grave sin and those who fail in this obligation with serious reason or dispersed by their own pastor, is excuse.

It is easy to say, missing a mass, if deliberately done, is a mortal sin since grave sin denotes the same idea as mortal sin. Actually, there is no room for such offense to classify it as venial sin in this manner because, it is either mortal sin or ‘as if no sin committed’ for being excuse.

This is the conclusion by Louisville and agreed by Terra Firma but contested by Ragamuffin. He cannot accept that missing a mass deliberately falls into the same category as murder.

Ironically, this deliberate act, though clearly stated as grave sin in CCC pp 2181 cannot be classified as mortal sin with respect to paragraph 1854 of Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC pp 1854) because it lacks the condition presented in CCC pp 1854 to weight the gravity of effect on human experience and thus to classify the committed sin whether it is mortal or venial sin.

Paragraph 1854 of Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC pp1854) states
[indent][color="#0000FF"]‘Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture, became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.’ [/color][/indent]

It simply mean, the gravity of effect brought by the committed sin will classify whether such committed sin is mortal or venial. And this gravity is corroborated by human experience meaning ‘confirm thru human experience’.

Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph 1858 (CCC pp 1858) gives an example - murder is graver than theft.

This is just for presentation - murder can be classified as mortal sin because the gravity of the effect based on human experience brought by the committed sin, which is killing, is grave – taking life. While theft can be classified as venial because the gravity of the effect based on human experience brought by the committed sin, which is stealing, is a lighter – taking thing. Meaning, taking life is a grave matter than that of taking things and this was accepted to be true based on human experience.

This grave matter issue was contested by Jimmy Akin as posted by Terra Firma. He put some variation on the definition of grave matter but, his arguments still run within the context of ‘corroborated by human experience’. He says something like this; stealing should not be classified as venial sin en Toto. It is possible to become mortal sin depending on the gravity of the effect relative to the offense committed on the oppressed. Meaning, stealing a poor person is a grave matter than that of stealing a rich person. Thus, the same committed sin, which is stealing, does not necessarily mean the same classification of sin. But this is not our subject of discussion.

Terra Firma previously said, missing a mass deliberately has eternal effect meaning spiritual in nature without temporal effect meaning it lacks the confirmation based on human experience. Therefore, such offense cannot be classified neither mortal nor venial sin under CCC pp 1854 declaration because …[b] It is not corroborated by human experience.[/b]

Unless of course somebody will tell me, I miss a mass last Sunday, and I died in the early morning of Monday and now I am here and I will never miss a mass again because last Monday I was in hell. Then and only then, we can weight and classify it as mortal sin based on that human experience.Therefore ‘grave sin’ is not ‘mortal sin’ using the above CCC declaration. Webster Dictionary lost its meaning.

What can I say about this? Is missing a mass is a mortal sin? Answer withheld, read it again.

God let it be that way to test you. I withheld myself to discuss it now.[/indent]

[LouisvilleFan]

Paragraph 2181 is saying that missing Mass is grave matter, which is one of the three conditions for an action or omitted action to be mortally sinful. The other two depend on individual circumstances.

I think we become very scrupulous by speculating into whether you would go to Hell on Monday because you missed Mass on Sunday. We need to remember that we worship a relational God, so he doesn't judge us strictly by the book, but by the condition of our heart.

You mentioned this thing about mortal sins being corroborated by human experience and your theoretical example of corroboration was missing Sunday Mass, dying on Monday, and finding yourself in Hell, then apparently by some grace of God, coming back to life with the knowledge that missing Mass is definitely a mortal sin. The biggest problem with that argument is that no sin, even betraying Jesus for 30 silver pieces, is known to have caused any particular person to end up in Hell. So if that's our definition of "human experience," then there might as well be no such thing as mortal sin.

I see the "corroboration of human experience" as the observance of how certain patterns of behavior reflect the attitude of our hearts. The Church knows that Catholics begin falling away from the faith by making those "little" choices, such as skipping out on Mass. Even if they aren't professing it with their tongue, they're sin of omission communicates a denial of the Eucharist as the source and summit of their life. I think it's akin to King David's initial sin of staying in Jerusalem while his army was out fighting battles. He chose selfishness over his duty to Israel. Likewise, skipping Mass is choosing selfishness over our Communion with Christ and the Church.

Ultimately, whether skipping Mass is a mortal sin or not depends on your heart. That's why the Church's conditions for mortal sin make us look at the underlying reasons and motivation for what we did (or didn't do) so that we better understand the condition of our heart and relationship with God.

[Sojourner]

reyb, lemme just note that I never said missing Mass has no temporal effect. I think it does have a temporal effect, just not as great an effect as, say, murdering someone.

[reyb]

[indent]Terra Firma,[/indent][quote name='Terra Firma' post='1288682' date='Jun 5 2007, 11:23 AM'][indent]OK, I'm going to take a stab at this. If I mess it up, someone wiser and smarter feel free to correct me.

I think what you're missing is the distinction between the temporal effects of the sin and the eternal effects of the sin.

Mortal sin, by definition, is sin that severs our relationship with God. That's the eternal effect of any mortal sin. However, sins that have that same eternal effect will have different temporal effects. The temporal effect is the consequence of the sin here and now. [color="#0000FF"]Purposefully missing Mass may not gravely injure anyone in my life, but it does gravely damage my relationship with God[/color]. [color="#0000FF"]The temporal consequences are slight, but the eternal consequences are serious. [/color]
Does that help?[/indent][/quote]

[indent][indent]Pretty obvious you did not say 'without temporal effect'.
Question 1: What is the temporal effect of missing a mass? Can you please give me some example? (just food for thought)
Question 2: Is missing a mass (deliberately done) a mortal sin or not? (with respect to question 1).[/indent][/indent]

[reyb]

[indent][quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1292603' date='Jun 11 2007, 12:36 AM']Ultimately, whether skipping Mass is a mortal sin or not depends on your heart. That's why the Church's conditions for mortal sin make us look at the underlying reasons and motivation for what we did (or didn't do) so that we better understand the condition of our heart and relationship with God.[/quote][/indent]
[indent]This is much better. [/indent]

[Sojourner]

[quote name='reyb' post='1292622' date='Jun 11 2007, 06:06 AM'][indent]Terra Firma,[/indent]

[indent][indent]Pretty obvious you did not say 'without temporal effect'.
Question 1: What is the temporal effect of missing a mass? Can you please give me some example? (just food for thought)
Question 2: Is missing a mass (deliberately done) a mortal sin or not? (with respect to question 1).[/indent][/indent][/quote]
Answer 1: During Mass, the entire Body of Christ joins together in thanksgiving. By refusing to participate in that, you do damage to relationships within the body. It's like refusing to show up to Christmas dinner with your family because you'd rather be sleeping. Also, you give up an opportunity to partake of the graces of the sacrament, which help you in your struggles against sin. Because of this, you are more vulnerable to temptation. In addition, we are obliged to follow the church's commands here, so I think there is a break not only with the community of believers but also with the authority of the church.

Answer 2: Yes.

Edited June 11, 2007 by Terra Firma