Missing Mass Is A Mortal Sin Yes Or No?

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1281979' date='May 27 2007, 12:17 AM']I appreciate your concern.

Here's the problem with your claim.

Every single church in the world claims to be the true church? Ask a Catholic Priest - yes because. Ask a Lutheran Priest - yes because. Ask a Baptist - yes because. Ask a Pentecostal - yes because.

Which church has doctrinal superiority? Which one is truly the true church everybody needs to go to?

Answer me this - I might consider going 'Catholic' if you can describe to me what time period in the 2nd chapter of the book of Joel - What does Pope Benedict say we are in?

And answer me this question -

Who is suppose to gather Israel?

And another quesetion -

When does the ingathering of Israel happen? Does it happened before or after Babylon has been judged? Does it happen before or after the latter day outpouring?

Answer me all these questions in your Catholic Handbooks, and I might consider the Catholic religion to be God's mouth in the world.

If not, I am firmly confident that I am in the hand of the Lord, in his word, and in his will.[/quote]

Are these questions you are truly interested in or asking to hopefully prove a point? If they are genuine, then I am sure anyone would be glad to answer them, myself included, but based on many of your posts, the seriousness of your search becomes questionable.

One thing I will say is that if you have a question as to which church does have doctrinal authority, ask yourself which church was first to be founded and which ones became split from that original church.

You call yourself GodChaser and it is definitely an appropriate name, but are you truly chasing after Him or running in the other direction? Sometimes though it can feel that we are searching, we find that what we are really doing is running away, mostly because we fear what we will find, or, in finding it, fear we were wrong. One of the biggest things in any search is trust, is faith. I don't mean blind acceptance, but the realization that maybe there are things in this world that go beyond our own reason, our own abiity to understand. I am not saying this is the case with your questions, specifically, but moreso in your search generally.

That is just my mere observation, based on what you have said, and what you have posted, take it or leave it, it won't bother me either way. Just know one thing, there are many people who came here before you, saying the same things and with the sole intention of "converting" us and, in the end, were converted themselves. It may not be the proof you are looking for, but it does indicate that something does happen and the Spirit can work in the most unlikely of places.

God Bless

Fr. Brian

[jkaands]

Back to the original question of is it a mortal sin to miss Mass:

I'm not Catholic.

I don't know the post-Vat II rules.

What is the rule regarding mandatory attendance at Mass ? Do you need to go to Mass on Sunday or Saturday or once each 7 days?

I agree that the grandparent wedding anniversary trumps the pastor-going-away party, but could you ask again to have someone fill in on July 28 and offer to fill in for that person in advance-putting in extra time if need be for her/him to repay a favor?


I disagree with Dave. We are obliged to Honor Our Father and Our Mother-that includes grandparents' 50th wedding anniversary parties. Skipping the party would give a bad example of Catholicism to non-Catholics as being inflexible--many non-Caths despise RC's for that very trait.

TALK TO YOUR OLD PRIEST OR THE NEW PRIEST. Explain the situation. He will probably give you a dispensation, saying that you should attend one extra Mass the week before or after. Don't priests have the power to bind or loose? Even mortal sins?

Why don't phatmassers consult their local clergy more?

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1282048' date='May 27 2007, 07:27 AM']Let me guess, all the other churches are wrong and you a "demagogue"? a lone ranger? your right? Arent you doing the same thing you claim these other churches are doing? This is why sola scriptura was a disaster from the very beginning. You have made yourselves into the word of God, you have given yourself "doctrinal superiority" you go from church to church, congregation to congregation service to service trying to find christ until you end up with just you and your bible and your interpretation. Divided and scattered and without Christ. Just a bad attitude towards everyone who disagrees with your version of the gospel. Leave the book of revelation alone before you hurt yourself. You didnt write it and add it to the bible, its not your to interpret. Leave the endtimes alone its not for us to know times and dates and when things are to happen. My goodness. How can some people be so obcessed with the end of the world?[/quote]
I am innocent of what you are saying Akalyte.

I place a number of questions to make a debate, which I have already placed in this board.

And what do I get, an attack on my character, how predictable. You're a broken record friend.

I am not obessed by the end of the world, I am obessed with my salvation. Above all else, I must be saved.

I don't go to the United Pentecostal Church anymore because their version of history doesn't fit scripture.

The Latterday outpouring didn't happen on Asuza street - because that would mean the latterday outpouring happened before Israel was gathered together. God's will is God's word. It has to fit exactly in with scripture, or it is a lie. Since Asuza Street doesn't fit in scripture it isn't the truth - and a lie of witchcraft from the devil.

I weep for every single 'holy ghost' filled person in the Pentecostal faith, because I know they were tricked by evil men to give heed to the doctrine of devils, which is a sign of the end times.

So I want to keep myself in what the word of God says exactly. I can't be decieved, if I know the word.

Edited May 27, 2007 by GodChaser

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1282187' date='May 27 2007, 02:18 PM']Are these questions you are truly interested in or asking to hopefully prove a point? If they are genuine, then I am sure anyone would be glad to answer them, myself included, but based on many of your posts, the seriousness of your search becomes questionable.

One thing I will say is that if you have a question as to which church does have doctrinal authority, ask yourself which church was first to be founded and which ones became split from that original church.

You call yourself GodChaser and it is definitely an appropriate name, but are you truly chasing after Him or running in the other direction? Sometimes though it can feel that we are searching, we find that what we are really doing is running away, mostly because we fear what we will find, or, in finding it, fear we were wrong. One of the biggest things in any search is trust, is faith. I don't mean blind acceptance, but the realization that maybe there are things in this world that go beyond our own reason, our own abiity to understand. I am not saying this is the case with your questions, specifically, but moreso in your search generally.

That is just my mere observation, based on what you have said, and what you have posted, take it or leave it, it won't bother me either way. Just know one thing, there are many people who came here before you, saying the same things and with the sole intention of "converting" us and, in the end, were converted themselves. It may not be the proof you are looking for, but it does indicate that something does happen and the Spirit can work in the most unlikely of places.

God Bless

Fr. Brian[/quote]
I'm not looking for converts Fr. Brian.

I don't have a church I go to, to convert people.

What I want to do here is to get people ready for some things.

I can answer those questions myself.

We're in the first part of Joel Chapter 2. Babylon is falling, and it's clinging for dear life, but it's falling. With the famine that will be caused when the commericial bee population dissappears (that is a seven year famine), death and hell will gather up all those who have an agreement with them - spiritual babylon. They're going to become extinct soon, because the prophecy of one being taken and one staying will occur, finally the harvesting of tares will occur.

I will weep for each person who dies during the famine, that is for sure, but with every death, there will come a great victory for the followers of Christ.

After that, Christ will gather Israel to himself, and there will be a national revival of the things of God for 50 years. Praise God!

Next will come the latter day outpouring, and after that judgement for all those who don't accept Jesus Christ, as their Lord, God, Saviour, and Redeemer.

My purpose here is to get people ready for the revival. May every person who is a follower of the Christ be blessed through this struggle.

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1282342' date='May 27 2007, 08:52 PM']I'm not looking for converts Fr. Brian.

I don't have a church I go to, to convert people.

What I want to do here is to get people ready for some things.

I can answer those questions myself.

We're in the first part of Joel Chapter 2. Babylon is falling, and it's clinging for dear life, but it's falling. With the famine that will be caused when the commericial bee population dissappears (that is a seven year famine), death and hell will gather up all those who have an agreement with them - spiritual babylon. They're going to become extinct soon, because the prophecy of one being taken and one staying will occur, finally the harvesting of tares will occur.

I will weep for each person who dies during the famine, that is for sure, but with every death, there will come a great victory for the followers of Christ.

After that, Christ will gather Israel to himself, and there will be a national revival of the things of God for 50 years. Praise God!

Next will come the latter day outpouring, and after that judgement for all those who don't accept Jesus Christ, as their Lord, God, Saviour, and Redeemer.

My purpose here is to get people ready for the revival. May every person who is a follower of the Christ be blessed through this struggle.[/quote]

Interesting. What exactly do you mean by "revival?" Also, I know you said you do not belong to any church, per se, so then what is it you subscribe to? In other words, what way of life do you follow, would you call yourself a Christian?

God Bless

[mortify]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1281979' date='May 26 2007, 10:17 PM']Here's the problem with your claim.

Every single church in the world claims to be the true church? Ask a Catholic Priest - yes because. Ask a Lutheran Priest - yes because. Ask a Baptist - yes because. Ask a Pentecostal - yes because.

Which church has doctrinal superiority? Which one is truly the true church everybody needs to go to?[/quote]

When I returned to Christianity I knew if it was true, there had to be some real historical and spiritual connection to Jesus Christ, and that connection is the Church. Obviously the Church has to be Apostolic and therefore I knew none of the Protestant denominations, which dated no earlier than the 16th century, could qualify.

The question is about [i]authority[/i], not superiority. Consider what the Lord said about the Pharisees, they were a bunch of hypocrites yet He told His followers to obey their teachings, why? Because they sit on the Seat of Moses. They're personal flaws did not deny them their valid authority, likewise, the Successors of St Peter have valid authority even though they may not be the most saintly men. Even St Peter was not perfect, of all the Apostles he was the one who denied our Lord three times, he had countless failures yet Jesus chose to give him the keys of Authority (cf isaiah 22), why? Because the Father chose Peter, out of all the Apostles, to reveal through him the truth about Jesus. This is important to understand, because St Peter did not teach correct doctrine because he was intellectually superior, but because the Spirit of the Father took a weak and flawed man and revealed it to him. If God can do that for St Peter, there is no reason He can't do that for any other Pope, who sits on the Seat of the Prince of Apostles.

Now the question goes back to you, dear friend, what [i]authority[/i] do you have?

[jkaands]

.....whatever happened to WhiteKnight's question regarding missing of Mass a mortal sin, his work, his grandparent's party, the commandment to Honor Your Parents, and the priest's party he doesn't want to miss?!

Why so much hijacking of these threads? Where's the focus? Where's the solution of Actual, Living, Everyday problems? Do you guys have LIVES outside of this forum?



WhiteKnight, what have you decided to do? Did you talk to any priest(s), and/or find anyone to switch with you?

you know, if you try and Want To, yo can have it all.

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1284386' date='May 30 2007, 02:32 PM'].....whatever happened to WhiteKnight's question regarding missing of Mass a mortal sin, his work, his grandparent's party, the commandment to Honor Your Parents, and the priest's party he doesn't want to miss?!

Why so much hijacking of these threads? Where's the focus? Where's the solution of Actual, Living, Everyday problems? Do you guys have LIVES outside of this forum?
WhiteKnight, what have you decided to do? Did you talk to any priest(s), and/or find anyone to switch with you?

you know, if you try and Want To, yo can have it all.[/quote]

It's not that we don't have lives outside this forum, rather, it is we get distracted very easily. Or if it is not that, sometimes we just get tired of dealing with the same arguments rehashed and repackaged to make it look like it is new. Besides, he was given many different options to weigh, the ultimate decision is what he chooses to do, but, so far, he has not come back to let us know...so we amuse ourselves while we wait

[jkaands]

Good response, Theo.


BTW, if you guys really want to amuse yourselves, go over to the atheists' forum and have some real fights--and the potential, well, theoretically, for making some headway.

Seriously.


[url="http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php"]http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php[/url]

Yowee!


...There appear to be a lot of ground rules, which may be honored more in the breach, but which can be invoked if things become nasty.

I thought that I would start posting there, which would be fun, as long as there are some church historians or theologians or somebody who has the historical background that I lack and am too lazy to look up. Google can go only so far. Anyone know Hebrew? Aramaic? Ancient Greek?

BUT---no emoticons! Now there's a lack! I'll have to talk to the webmaster about that....

[Ragamuffin]

You know, I agree that attending church services weekly is important. Paul instructs us "not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together as some are in the custom of doing." However, I don't understand elevating it to the status of a mortal sin as long as it hasn't become a pattern. If someone misses a service every once in a while for some reason like the one White Knight mentions, I hardly see this as having forsaken going to church or not taking attendance seriously.

I don't generally agree with Budge on much of anything but it does seem like the Catholic Church is taking this too far in considering it a grave sin to miss Mass.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Ragamuffin' post='1284977' date='May 31 2007, 12:03 AM']You know, I agree that attending church services weekly is important. Paul instructs us "not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together as some are in the custom of doing." However, I don't understand elevating it to the status of a mortal sin as long as it hasn't become a pattern. If someone misses a service every once in a while for some reason like the one White Knight mentions, I hardly see this as having forsaken going to church or not taking attendance seriously.

I don't generally agree with Budge on much of anything but it does seem like the Catholic Church is taking this too far in considering it a grave sin to miss Mass.[/quote]

If a Protestant fails to go to Sunday services, he misses a sermon, a few songs, and a whole lot of fellowshipping. If a Catholic fails to go Mass, he misses the Sacrifice by which God renews his covenent with us and us with God. The new covenant in Christ's blood (Luke 22:20) is renewed with all the people collectively and with each of us individually in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the Eucharist. Calvary is re-presented, and we kneel at the foot of the cross. Jesus feeds us with His own Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity -- His own Divine Life so we may become more like Him. He gave us life and maintains our lives 24/7. Isn't one hour a week the minimum we owe to Him in return? And so the Church binds us to be there, barring sufficient reason, under pain of mortal sin, when the Holy Sacrifice is offered. We have an obligation to worship God. This is the bare minimum -- the very least we can do -- for all He has done and continues to do for us.

The Church's authority to make laws -- to bind us and to loose us -- is found in Mt. 16:18-19.

Likos

Edited May 31, 2007 by Katholikos

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1284691' date='May 31 2007, 02:04 AM']Good response, Theo.
BTW, if you guys really want to amuse yourselves, go over to the atheists' forum and have some real fights--and the potential, well, theoretically, for making some headway.

Seriously.
[url="http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php"]http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php[/url]

Yowee!
...There appear to be a lot of ground rules, which may be honored more in the breach, but which can be invoked if things become nasty.

I thought that I would start posting there, which would be fun, as long as there are some church historians or theologians or somebody who has the historical background that I lack and am too lazy to look up. Google can go only so far. Anyone know Hebrew? Aramaic? Ancient Greek?

BUT---no emoticons! Now there's a lack! I'll have to talk to the webmaster about that....[/quote]

My Hebrew is quite rusty, unless you want something simple like the first chapter of Genesis.

[Ragamuffin]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1284997' date='May 31 2007, 12:22 AM']If a Protestant fails to go to Sunday services, he misses a sermon, a few songs, and a whole lot of fellowshipping.[/quote]
That's a tad simplistic and a tad insulting, though you might not have meant it that way.


[quote]If a Catholic fails to go Mass, he misses the Sacrifice by which God renews his covenent with us and us with God. The new covenant in Christ's blood (Luke 22:20) is renewed with all the people collectively and with each of us individually in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the Eucharist. Calvary is re-presented, and we kneel at the foot of the cross. Jesus feeds us with His own Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity -- His own Divine Life so we may become more like Him. He gave us life and maintains our lives 24/7. [/quote]Does His covenant have an expiration date on it or something? I get that it's a means of grace and understand the Catholic view of its benefits to the worshipper, but again, we're not talking about a person who has made it a habit or pattern of missing mass frequently for frivolous reasons or abject laziness. And someone even suggested that he attend on Friday or some other day during the week to fulfill this rule and that was shot down as not good enough. Applying the call to "forsake not the assembling" in this manner seems to be making it a legalistic hoop to jump through...missing the spirit of the law in order to feel good about the letter of it.


[quote]Isn't one hour a week the minimum we owe to Him in return? And so the Church binds us to be there, barring sufficient reason, under pain of mortal sin, when the Holy Sacrifice is offered. We have an obligation to worship God. This is the bare minimum -- the very least we can do -- for all He has done and continues to do for us.[/quote]
We have an obligation to worship God every day of the week, not just on Sundays. That is the bare minimum. Viewing our obligation as anything less than that is just punching a timecard. I'm not saying that Mass should be missed arbitrarily or regularly and I'm not saying that such actions shouldn't be considered a problem. But a mortal sin? Seems extreme.


[quote]The Church's authority to make laws -- to bind us and to loose us -- is found in Mt. 16:18-19.[/quote]
I know the Catholic view on this. I'm not questioning the right to make laws. I'm questioning the application of them. As a father to my young girls, I have the [i]right[/i] to make all kinds of rules that they are obligated to follow...to, in essence, "bind and loose" them. But that doesn't mean that every rule I can think up is a good rule to impose on them or to be overly rigid on.

Edited May 31, 2007 by Ragamuffin

[jkaands]

Good responses, Rag.

Keep it up.

Your efforts will be wasted, but they are great to read.

A breath of fresh air in this forum, which is otherwise very stuffy. No real "debate".

BTW, my impression of Anglican doctrine, as a former Anglican, is the "sacrifice of himself once offered"-- Jesus sacrificed ONCE and for all, for all and for all time, and that the Mass is performed " in remembrance of me" to quote from some gospel. He doesn't have to keep doing it.

I don't know about the Protestant interpretation.

And don't knock songs, sermons--usually good ones--and fellowship. Protestant churches are very well attended without a mortal-sin-if-you-miss-it proscription. And lots of $$ in the baskets, usually in the form of checks and tithing.

...but, Rag, do you mean you don't like [i]black [/i]southern gospel, or [i]white[/i] southern gospel. The two are entirely different. Black gospel is great.

[Ragamuffin]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1285121' date='May 31 2007, 10:21 AM']...but, Rag, do you mean you don't like [i]black [/i]southern gospel, or [i]white[/i] southern gospel. The two are entirely different. Black gospel is great.[/quote]
I can appreciate black (or as it's now called, "traditional") gospel music, though I wouldn't listen to it often. It's Southern (white) gospel music that makes me want to hurl. But if you wish to carry this on further, let's take it back to that thread and not derail this one.