How Do We Attrack More Protestants To Phatmass.

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1264481' date='May 4 2007, 02:50 PM']1.) You have found a way to disqualify everyone but you.[/quote]

sorry. now i feel guilty for poking so much fun at things. it is pretty comical when you're trying to think about something seriously and well..

you're either a part of the original and apostolic church, or you aren't. you're either in communion with the catholic church, or you're a protestant. make as many labels and denominations as you want, but being politically correct and demanding to be recognized with a fancy label doesn't change the fact that if you reject the church Jesus established, you're a protestant.

if it walks like a duck..


back to topic. for me it seems reading the Church Fathers and knowing basic history lends itself to seeing the truth, and we can provide it here.

[Jnorm888]

Simple. You ask them to come over.

[Jnorm888]

[quote name='Nadezhda' post='1262832' date='May 2 2007, 06:44 PM']You continue to treat us (non-Catholics but not scary fundies) with such ridiculous kindness and answer questions. And offer free cookies. A sense of humor helps too. I've learned more for the tongue in cheek debate threads that I have from any number of "All Protestants are heretics and here's 4012 reasons why!" threads. Lumping all Protestants is as bad as evangelicals lumping all Catholics together. Some of us are nice people too![/quote]


You might think that's funny but I heard about a catholic priest in Brazil doing just that.

[Jnorm888]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1262835' date='May 2 2007, 06:47 PM']How do we attack more Protestants? Why, with the holy hand grenade of antioch of course![/quote]


You might think that's funny but I heard of a catholic priest in Brazil doing just that.

[Jnorm888]

[quote name='Budge' post='1264091' date='May 4 2007, 08:11 AM']Scott Hahn was never a Bible Christian.

sadly I tired of Catholics claiming that the Presbyterian church is evangelical, maybe in the days of Chiniquay, but today, NO way.

Presbyterianism has become so watered down that one of its major branches...Presbysterian USA, could give the United Methodists a run for their money in embracing modernism and liberalism.

Scott Hahn was in some small group of Presbyterians, an off shoot as it were but never held Bible Christian or fundamentalist beliefs. {Presbyterians today do not hold to the Bible literally}

Even Mark Shea claims he was an evangelical but reallly was in a college campus group led by one man that preached anything but historical evangelical beliefs or even fundamentalist ones, especially since as he has admitted this group did not believe in a literal second coming of Christ.

One can get converted outside or even on the nets. I know when I was reading the Bible and studying it, I encountered the truth on the internet while still Catholic.[/quote]



Budge, I don't think you know what you are talking about. Are you calling the PCA LIBERAL? Also full Prets are Literal when it comes to Mathew chapter 23 or is it chapter 24? Anyway I'm sure all those former Prots you called out would disagree with you.


I bet many of the people you claim to be with disagree with you about what a "true" Protestant is and isn't.


The Truth is if you are not from the Dutch Reformed Church. The Church of England, The Lutherian Church, The Church of Scotland or one of the Anabaptists then you really can't call yourself a Protestant!!! So I wouldn't be too picky about who is and who isn't a "TRUE" Protestant because historically your church group wouldn't make the cut!!!

If you are not a member of one of those groups above that I mentioned then your protestant church is really psuedo!!!

We use the term Protestant loosely!!! In truth The Lutherians were the ones called Protestants!!! While the Calvinists were just called "The Reformed".





J

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Budge' post='1264357' date='May 4 2007, 01:44 PM']You folks dont realize the difference between [b]MAINLINE Prot churches[/b] and fundamentalist or evangelical churches?

Presbyterians even hold to the same ECFs, you do and some of the councils if not all.

Please learn the difference between mainline Protetantism and the Bible Christian world {Pentes, fund. Baptists, evangelicals--[not neo-evangelicals like Joel Osteen]

Presbysterians do not hold to fundamentals anymore. Yes there are a FEW CONSERVATIVE EXCEPTIONS...[just like you folks with the Trads] but the majority do not hold to the inerrancy of scripture etc.

or other uses, see Mainline (disambiguation).
P
Are there some saved Christians in these churches?

Sure. [irregardless of the nonsense their churches are feeding them] since salvation by faith is taught in some of them, their are those who come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

I used to visit a Free Methodist church [conservative branch of Methodist church] in my old community, did Bible study there. {I was firmly in my old church but had friends there. There were saved Chrsitians there--people who showed fruits of salvation., but sadly their church was teaching more and more falsehoods, especially after Rick warren and pals showed up.[/quote]
My parents are Presbyterian (PC-USA) and if you can find more fundamentalist folks on earth I'd be happy to meet them. They are VERY happy with their PC-USA church. (Of course, the PC-USA is not so happy with their church, but that's beside the point ... that whole denom is getting ready to (or maybe already has) split; about 100 churches are moving into the Evangelical Presbyterian Church).

Nonetheless, this is no basis on which to call whole denominations non-Christian. Heck, even we recognize you and your ilk as brothers and sisters in Christ ... separated, yes, but still siblings. And you all are the ones who did the leaving.

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1264481' date='May 4 2007, 03:50 PM']Couple things.

1.) You have found a way to disqualify everyone but you.

2.) I grew up in an evangelical church, I have an evangelical academic bible college degree (I will tommorow..woot-woot) I was and am as evangelical as you could imagine. How am I not your lose end that you can not tie up? Would you argue my "flavor" of evangelical was not " bible" as yours? Would you argue I did not put enough active effort into it? How do I directly fit in your great teaching?

3.) You hold to the same ECF's, you rebel and whine about them. But you believe in a triune God, you believe in the canon of scripture, you believe Christ was divine and human, you dont honor history. You steal from it.

p.s. I cant Stand Joel Osteen either...what a misjustice that he gets popular and a book like "Embrace and Exclusion" by Volf does not.[/quote]
1) Agreed

2) Same here, except not a Bible college degree, but still a degree from an actively evangelical university. As in, they would never let me teach there now because I could not sign their statement of faith.

3) Agreed

p.s. I LOVE EXCLUSION AND EMBRACE!!!!! That book is awesome. Very dense, but awesome. A friend recommended it to me years ago and I picked it up. Of course it's not popular because it takes some brainpower to read, whereas Osteen not as much. I'm going to have to put E&E on my re-reading list for the summer ... :

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1264091' date='May 4 2007, 08:11 AM']Scott Hahn was never a Bible Christian.

sadly I tired of Catholics claiming that the Presbyterian church is evangelical, maybe in the days of Chiniquay, but today, NO way.

Presbyterianism has become so watered down that one of its major branches...Presbysterian USA, could give the United Methodists a run for their money in embracing modernism and liberalism.

Scott Hahn was in some small group of Presbyterians, an off shoot as it were but never held Bible Christian or fundamentalist beliefs. {Presbyterians today do not hold to the Bible literally}

Even Mark Shea claims he was an evangelical but reallly was in a college campus group led by one man that preached anything but historical evangelical beliefs or even fundamentalist ones, especially since as he has admitted this group did not believe in a literal second coming of Christ.

One can get converted outside or even on the nets. I know when I was reading the Bible and studying it, I encountered the truth on the internet while still Catholic.[/quote]
Didn't you yourself say somewhere what denomination one is identified with isn't important so much as how one follows the Bible? Whatever else you might say about Scott Hahn, that man definitely knows his Bible!

"Brother Adam" and his wife were Baptists like yourself. My parents were raised in Church of Christ congregations whose beleifs were in fact much like yours - heavy emphasis on the Bible and its literal inerrancy, belief that the Catholic Church is pagan, and that the Eucharist is idolatry.

For an entertaining story of a hardcore Evangelical convert to Catholicism, I'd recommend [url="http://www.catholiccompany.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=13702"]Tim Staples[/url]. (I wanted to mention him last night, but it was late, and I couldn't remember his name.)

Your argument here, Budge, is basically circular:
1) Bible-believing Christians never convert to the Catholic Faith
2) But if one converts, that proves he was never truly a Bible believer in the first place.

And how is one to determine who does and does not believe in the Bible? Simple - by whether or not they agree with Budge's Magisterium of One! (Or is that Jack Chick?)

Edited May 5, 2007 by Socrates

[123]

[quote]I didn't take any offense. I was actually thanking the Pham for its kindness. Debate can be very useful. I don't actually do much of it because I don't have a background in apologetics and rhetoric. I was trying to keep it light, because I do think humor is an invaluable tool. I'm here to learn. Reading the debates of others helps me do that.[/quote]

I see, then sorry for the confusion.

[Budge]

[quote]The Truth is if you are not from the Dutch Reformed Church. The Church of England, The Lutherian Church, The Church of Scotland or one of the Anabaptists then you really can't call yourself a Protestant!!! So I wouldn't be too picky about who is and who isn't a "TRUE" Protestant because historically your church group wouldn't make the cut!!![/quote]

Norm Im ok, with that because I really AM NOT a PROTESTANT...but a Christian.

I have used the word Protestant here on occasion for clarification...[being noncatholic] but i should avoid that for clarity.

[thessalonian]

Budge,

All you do is protest the Catholic Church on this board. Therefore your in fairy tale land if you think your not a prot.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1263612' date='May 3 2007, 10:47 PM']

i actually first signed up on message boards of christian bands whom i liked. there are tons of people there. i later realized i was outnumbered 10,000 to 1 by the protestants there. i still stuck around and talked catholicism before finding this site. i made a few "informational" threads about basic Caholicism and whatnot and i think a made a slight difference. it's amazing how in the dark some of them are regarding basic church history. my favorite, "Catholics are Christians?"

hence, another way to attract protestants would be the same way they attracted me, by helping our Catholic music scene grow so big that they come to visit the musicians and fans and are bombarded with the truth YEAH! ARGHH.[/quote]

I actually got asked that question by a protestant friend once before I took him to a Catholic/Christian youth festival in my diocese (SONfest! woot! woot!) and I was very surprised. Later I got questions such as do you celebrate *this* holiday, etc. I answered kindly to all questions. It just amazes me about their ignorance though. He was interested to hear Catholics can be quite celebrant! :

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1264138' date='May 4 2007, 11:40 AM']Do me next, Do me next (*little kid jumps up and down holding their mom's hand asking to ride the pony)[/quote]

Oh! Oh! Me too! I can't wait to hear what Budge has to say about former Anglicans!

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1264509' date='May 4 2007, 06:21 PM']if it walks like a duck..[/quote]

... then it's Chris Padget! :

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1264684' date='May 4 2007, 11:14 PM']Budge,

All you do is protest the Catholic Church on this board. Therefore your in fairy tale land if you think your not a prot.[/quote]
You'd better let Jnorm888 know that too...

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1264544' date='May 4 2007, 06:28 PM']p.s. I LOVE EXCLUSION AND EMBRACE!!!!! That book is awesome. Very dense, but awesome. A friend recommended it to me years ago and I picked it up. Of course it's not popular because it takes some brainpower to read, whereas Osteen not as much. I'm going to have to put E&E on my re-reading list for the summer ... :[/quote]

Woah....you just earned major brownie points. I did a final in class based on his "theology of a hug" based on his background it is just an amazing book.


Hey look..Budge made a post but once again refuse to comment on what I said.

I am the flaw in your logic, I am the problem for your worldview budge. My simple existence shows your claim to be bunk. By you ignoring this you just prove the point all the more.

[Urib2007]

1) By allowing more gays to serve in the Catholic community
2) Having the leaders of the Catholic Church advocate that all religions will go to heaven
3) Having the Pope surround himself with other religions
4) Having the Pope kiss the Koran
5) Saying that there is a purgatory where minor sinners will go instead of spending time in hell

So far the Catholic Church is doing pretty well by doing the above, so expect more "Protestants" at Phatmass.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1265557' date='May 5 2007, 09:17 PM']1) By allowing more gays to serve in the Catholic community
2) Having the leaders of the Catholic Church advocate that all religions will go to heaven
3) Having the Pope surround himself with other religions
4) Having the Pope kiss the Koran
5) Saying that there is a purgatory where minor sinners will go instead of spending time in hell

So far the Catholic Church is doing pretty well by doing the above, so expect more "Protestants" at Phatmass. [/quote]

Urib, I gotta argue your sarcasm here. First, I don't get what you mean with #1, #2 is not true. The leaders teach Christ is the way, the truth and the life. Other religions can 'go to heaven' only if they do not know of Christ and continue to seek the Truth. Thus, they will recognise him in the end. Besides, who are we to judge who DOESN'T go to heaven? I'm leaving that up to Christ. #3, the Pope is making a sort of 'alliance' against secularism, while at the same time tactfully trying to get them to know the faith. I'd like to see some bible thumping prod try and get Buddhists to Convert. Speaking with love and friendship is what brings people to Christ. #4 -- whoa, hold on there, before I touch this one with a 20 foot pole I kindly ask for sources please. #5 That is a bit of a missunderstanding of purgatory. Besides, protestants demonise this place way too much. Have they ever really read Revelations? Rev 21:27 "But nothing unclean will enter [the New Jerusalem]". So what do you do about those who are "saved", but have sinned since their last reconciliation with Christ (which prods do through prayer)? I guess they're doomed for the Fire and Brimstone of Hell... Anywho back on topic. To get our separated brethren on here we have to invite them personally!

[Jnorm888]

[quote name='Budge' post='1264625' date='May 4 2007, 07:40 PM']Norm Im ok, with that because I really AM NOT a PROTESTANT...but a Christian.

I have used the word Protestant here on occasion for clarification...[being noncatholic] but i should avoid that for clarity.[/quote]


Granted