Non-catholics!

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Captain_Fantastic' post='1264444' date='May 4 2007, 04:00 PM']3. Humane Vitae

7. Christological issues including the Trinity


Captain
-agnostic-[/quote]

Could you explain these 2 sir? if not here, in PM?

A super-Evangelical

[Guest 基督耶蘇]

I'm currently on my way to becoming a Catholic, and I myself can't find anything I don't accept.

But I am constantly hearing from people who think Catholics believe the accidents themselves are changed through transubstantiation. Ie people who think the Catechism teaches the host becomes physical human flesh.

That bit is a surprisingly common misconception, so add it to your list right next to bits like

[quote]4. The fact that Catholicism makes the cross insufficient...{adding sacraments and more}
instead of adhereing to the true gospel of grace. Jesus died for us and FINISHED THE JOB.
I know when I became saved, that Jesus now means everything to me.[/quote]

[jeffpugh]

The accidents do become Christ... and I don't think quoting budge here is what you may exactly think you mean. The cross is not insufficient. It is the altar in which the priest/victim Christ spilled His blood upon as an eternal, perpetuating sacrifice. I don't know how much more sufficient that can be...

[Guest 基督耶蘇]

I'm sorry I must have said that in the wrong way, what I mean is people with the idea that the accidents become physical human flesh, organs, etc.

Also when I made that quote I was intending to imply that like it is a misconception of some that transubstantiation means a physical metamorphoses of bread into human organs , it's also a misconception that Catholics believe the cross is insufficient.

I'm truly sorry I surely must have said that poorly before.

[Paddington]

[quote name='基督耶蘇' post='1267582' date='May 8 2007, 12:12 AM']I'm sorry I must have said that in the wrong way, what I mean is people with the idea that the accidents become physical human flesh, organs, etc.[/quote]

I've never heard of anybody thinking that.

[N/A Gone]

In my understanding, you need to look at this with an aristolian (sp) outlook. The essence changes into BBSD, but the attributes remain. So it is the BBSD, but it appears as the bread. sounds kinda weird, but thats why it is understood as a mystery

[Guest 基督耶蘇]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1267596' date='May 7 2007, 10:55 PM']I've never heard of anybody thinking that.[/quote]

I think a similar question came up on the last episode of "web of faith". Something a long the lines of "When we receive the eucharist are we eating all of the body of Christ, even the intestines and eyeballs ..." And she went on from there.

Father Trigilio gave a nice answer explaining transubstantiation, and where the "over accidental" understanding as he called it began.

Maybe that will be on in rerun and people can catch it.

I know a couple prots who don't accept the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist because they think if the bread isn't physically changing into human meat then nothing has happened. It's a misunderstanding of substance, and a lack of faith in the sacrament Jesus instituted during the Last Supper.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='基督耶蘇' post='1267582' date='May 7 2007, 10:42 PM']I'm sorry I must have said that in the wrong way, what I mean is people with the idea that the accidents become physical human flesh, organs, etc.

Also when I made that quote I was intending to imply that like it is a misconception of some that transubstantiation means a physical metamorphoses of bread into human organs , it's also a misconception that Catholics believe the cross is insufficient.

I'm truly sorry I surely must have said that poorly before.[/quote]

It's quite alright. It's amazing though with one of the Eucharistic "super" miracles (the Eucharist is a miracle after all, but there are some very special ones), the bread and wine become and look like flesh and blood. There was a scientific study on one of the unsubstantiated wafers and it is said to be the flesh of a human [b]heart[b/]. The wine that turned to blood and looked like blood had the same DNA as the flesh. I assume the DNA is the same as the blood on the shroud. It is amazing stuff. I will get more details on the specific miracle later, as soon as I find where I read it... it's on paper around my place some where...

Anyways, just to clarify, I understand what you say, and I do not believe the Eucharist becomes human organs, but it is comforting to think that he is giving his heart in the Eucharist.

Hopefully I have not caused too much confusion. If I have, ask one of these other knowledgeable people here on Phatmass *cough*Raphael*cough*.

God Bless †

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[hoosieranna]

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