Non-catholics!

[prose]

Can you name ten things you absolutely can not accept in the Catholic Church?

I am guessing these will come up:

Mary, the papacy, reconciliation, faith and works relationship....

Are there more?

[Lena]

ok well firstly, i am catholic. but i have been questioned (by non-catholics) on the church's teachings regarding homosexuality, the Friday Lenten fast/no meat (tried explaining this one to my roommate and it didn't go over), and the role of saints.

Edited May 2, 2007 by Lena

[homeschoolmom]

Don't forget sacramentals

[hoosieranna]

I'm not Catholic. My single remaining huge issue is the ban on artificial contraception. I actually didn't have "Mary issues" once it was explained. I didn't get papal infallibility either. I now know that very specific conditions have to be met. It's not like "The pope said potatoes are actually fruit, so we have to believe they are fruit." Saints weren't an issue because I like the idea of having a prayer team working for me.

Even then, my issue with the contraception ban isn't theological. I'm a geographer. We study the earth and it's peoples. If the population were to increase to a point that is unsustainable, I'm left without anywhere to live or study. I've done some reading on NFP and was impressed by its apparent efficacy.

As for faith vs. works, I remembered that "faith without works is dead." Sola scriptura was busted for me when a very Protestant pastor used Augustine as an authority on Scripture. This pastor was quoting one of the ultimate Catholic theologians like the guy (Augustine) knew what he was talking about. Where did that leave the pastor?

[desertwoman]

1. Marian devotion

2. Papal Infallibility

3. Purgatory

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Nadezhda' post='1262726' date='May 2 2007, 06:15 PM']I'm not Catholic. My single remaining huge issue is the ban on artificial contraception. I actually didn't have "Mary issues" once it was explained. I didn't get papal infallibility either. I now know that very specific conditions have to be met. It's not like "The pope said potatoes are actually fruit, so we have to believe they are fruit." Saints weren't an issue because I like the idea of having a prayer team working for me.

Even then, my issue with the contraception ban isn't theological. I'm a geographer. We study the earth and it's peoples. If the population were to increase to a point that is unsustainable, I'm left without anywhere to live or study. I've done some reading on NFP and was impressed by its apparent efficacy.

As for faith vs. works, I remembered that "faith without works is dead." Sola scriptura was busted for me when a very Protestant pastor used Augustine as an authority on Scripture. This pastor was quoting one of the ultimate Catholic theologians like the guy (Augustine) knew what he was talking about. Where did that leave the pastor?[/quote]

If you were to study Christopher West's series discussing JP II's theology of the body, I truly believe that you would understand why the teaching is what it is. God provides.

[hoosieranna]

I do understand pretty well. My issues are not theological. I'm one of those that actually knew about the Lambeth conference of 1930. I am especially impressed that the Billings method is accepted as effective in China. If it's good enough for a country with a population that large and government that, special, it's certainly good enough for me. And it's not banned by the Church.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've read rave reviews by other posters about Mr. West's Theology of the Body series. I will look into it when I have more time free (not at the end of the semester .

Edited May 2, 2007 by Nadezhda

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Nadezhda' post='1262801' date='May 2 2007, 06:26 PM']I do understand pretty well. My issues are not theological. I am especially impressed that the Billings method is accepted as effective in China. If it's good enough for a country with a population that large and government that, special, it's certainly good enough for me. And it's not banned by the Church.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've read rave reviews by other posters about Mr. West's Theology of the Body series. I will look into it when I have more time free (not at the end of the semester .[/quote]
As much as the population of the world may be growing, NFP cannot be used with a contraceptive mentality. If, of course, the population got so bad that it would be irresponsible to have children (i.e. serious reasons would enter the picture: they couldn't be taken care of), then it could be used.

The problem is that in most parts of the world, as you undoubtedly know, the population is decreasing. I don't think there's a need for most people to abstain on the basis of overpopulation. Even if there was, it's clear that contraception would not be the answer, but I won't go into that because you already have no theological problem with Catholic teaching.

[RezaMikhaeil]

1.) The Roman Catholic Church isn't mentioned in the Bible [where as the Coptic Church is mentioned]
2.) Papal Infalliblilty [as everyone probably knows]
3.) The sinlessness of St. Mary

[Era Might]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1262877' date='May 2 2007, 08:37 PM']1.) The Roman Catholic Church isn't mentioned in the Bible [where as the Coptic Church is mentioned][/quote]
St. Paul devoted an entire epistle to the Roman Church.

[quote]To all God's beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

--Romans 1:7[/quote]

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1262883' date='May 2 2007, 06:56 PM']St. Paul devoted an entire epistle to the Roman Church.[/quote]

The Roman Catholic Church isn't prophesied about thou, that was to all the Roman Churches in Rome, not specifically the Roman Catholic, while the Coptic, Syriac and Antiochian are prophesied about in Isaiah 19, and are mentioned as being indestructable.

Have you read Revelation 17? An orthodox brother pointed this out to me:

[code]The "Whore" which, according to Hunt, is the Catholic Church, is said to sit upon a seven-headed beast. Hunt assumes that this refers to the Catholic Church, since the Church is headquartered in Rome and ancient Rome was built on seven hills. Assuming that the intelligent reader would even consider such an analogy to be reasonable, it must be pointed out that geographically, the Vatican is not located on ANY of the hills of ancient Rome.[/code]

[code]If they get rid of papal infallibility, then it might mean that St. Gregory the Great, sixth century pope of Rome, was wrong when he said whosoever raises himself above the other bishops to make himself Universal Bishop would be the precursor of the anti-Christ.[/code]

Reza

[prose]

We had 266 pre-cursors to the anti-Christ?

[jeffpugh]

How about that? Oh dear... hahahaha
Seriously though... interesting. I've heard some prods go hardcore on that theory. They never went as far as equating Babylon with Rome. At least we're that far. Anywho I have a Prod who has a problem with the saints. He says why do we pray to them? Then he quotes a chapter in the old testament saying the dead do not now what's going on. I think I have a refutation. maybe not.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1262911' date='May 2 2007, 09:48 PM']How about that? Oh dear... hahahaha
Seriously though... interesting. I've heard some prods go hardcore on that theory. They never went as far as equating Babylon with Rome. At least we're that far. Anywho I have a Prod who has a problem with the saints. He says why do we pray to them? Then he quotes a chapter in the old testament saying the dead do not now what's going on. I think I have a refutation. maybe not.[/quote]

I was taught that the Catholic Church is the W of B in Sunday School and from the pulpit. They're still at it. If they would read my thread "How 27 books became the NT," they'd know how uninformed they are.

Where in the Bible does it say the saints are dead? They are more alive than we are -- alive in Christ Jesus.

Guess Protestants don't read their Bible, eh? "He [God] is not the God of the dead but of the living" Mt 22:32.

The Church is one family, the living (Church Militant), in Purgatory (Church Suffering), and in Heaven (Church Triumphant). God's best friends are in heaven. Any friend of God's is a friend of mine. That's the title of a great little book by Patrick Madrid that explains the Communion of Saints.

And -- we pray to the saints because it gets results. We've been doing it for 2,000 years. On a tomb adjacent to St. Peter's tomb in Rome is this inscription: [b][color="#A0522D"] "Peter, pray for the pious Christian men buried near your body."[/b] [/color] The Catacombs are full of prayers to the saints inscribed on the walls, asking for prayers for the Christians who were buried there.

St. Paul prayed for Onesiphorus, who most likely was deceased (2 Tim 1:18). And he said, "Be imitators of me as I am of Christ."

Why do I pray to our Mother, Mary? Because it works! Her prayers are powerful. Thanks, Mama. I love you.

Likos

Edited May 3, 2007 by Katholikos

[Sojourner]

prior to conversion I at one point believed Catholics weren't Christians because of the whole faith/works justification issue. It was a really vague idea, not well thought through -- just something I accepted as true because that's what I'd been taught. I think I also grew up hearing that icons and statues were bad in church, prob. because of idol worship.

Of the two of those early issues, the justification one was bigger for me. I really wrestled with understanding that. Other things that were problems ... Marian doctrines, papal authority, and the Eucharist. After I started really getting serious, things that were a detraction were 1) Catholics are often ill-informed about their own faith, and b) parish communities are often not as warm and welcoming as I'd been used to. But those things did not ultimately deter me.