Catholicism Vs. Orthodoxy - Moral Issues

[Maggyie]

Could anyone explain for me why Orthodoxy allows exactly three marriages? I may have some opportunity in the near future to discuss Orthodoxy vs. Catholicism with some folks and I don't want to misrepresent the faith of my Orthodox brothers and sisters.

[ttomm46]

All mmembers of SCOBA have the same traditions and morals......no unity yet with the coptic churches...same liturgy..If anyone says an abortive pill is ok they aren't Orthodox

Edited April 30, 2007 by ttomm46

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1260628' date='Apr 30 2007, 11:53 AM']Could anyone explain for me why Orthodoxy allows exactly three marriages? I may have some opportunity in the near future to discuss Orthodoxy vs. Catholicism with some folks and I don't want to misrepresent the faith of my Orthodox brothers and sisters.[/quote]

I can't answer the WHY question. Why, when Jesus and St. Paul say remarriage is adultery (assuming the marriage was sacramental)? It falls under the category, "Why I am Catholic and not Orthodox."

But here's the url for the Orthodox (unbiblical) teaching. Scroll down to "marriage, divorce, and . . .":

[url="http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp"]http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp[/url]

I was in dialog with an Orthodox priest, and he confirmed that this is true throughout the Orthodox world.

Likos

Edited April 30, 2007 by Katholikos

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='ttomm46' post='1260774' date='Apr 30 2007, 03:45 PM']All mmembers of SCOBA have the same traditions and morals......no unity yet with the coptic churches...same liturgy..[/quote]I was unfamiliar with the term SCOBA, referring to the Standing Conference of the Canonical Orthodox Bishops in the Americas:
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCOBA"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCOBA[/url]

Of course, this begs the questions:
1) What authority does SCOBA have?
2) What does this mean for those Orthodox churches in America which are excluded from the "SCOBA fold"?

Even if we leave aside the issue that this organization is associated with geographics limits (US only?) and look at the worldwide Orthodox communions (Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox), this type of leaderless confederation of churches reminds me of the Anglican Communion. How does an organization of churches maintain perpetual communion when its only visible head is purely honorific? In practice, they cannot maintain unity.

PS: Regarding the "three marriage limit", I thought it was only two. Maybe this varies from church to church?

[ttomm46]

SCOBA comprises..The three main branches of Orthodoxy..Greek, Antiochian.and OCA in this country....Some Orthodox groups are the same as old Catholics..they are not in communion because of politics..usually Russian

Disunity in Orthodoxy is a myth..there are always splinter groups claiming to be Orthodox.....there are over 600 Catholic chapels and churches in this country that claim to be true Catholics that aren't in communion with Rome.

Edited April 30, 2007 by ttomm46

[Mateo el Feo]

Agred: there are many splinter churches which claim to be Catholic or Orthodox. The difference lies in the fact that the Catholic Church has a central authority that can speak definitively on who is in communion and who is not. Without such an authority, who could judge the various splinter Orthodox churches?

Admittedly, the organization of the Orthodox communion is a bit confusing for an outsider. It doesn't help that the various members of Orthodoxy disagree so much on the status of other branches of Orthodoxy.

[ttomm46]

Actually the Catholic Church never Claimed to have A Pope as head of the Universal church till Leo declared himself head in 455AD......The Pope was known as first among equals till he took on himself the job as head of the church without consent of the East...I was Roman Catholic for 45 years.
As far as unity evry single Catholic church i attended in Denver was preaching different things.

St. Dominics was all about Liberation theology..Had women giving homalies....Spirit of Christ Catholic church..Fr' Ken Leone, actually told me in confesssion that i didn't have to tell my sins because Jesus forgave me..they were charasmatic....They actually had the Lynn Brothers..Two priests speak and say that if Hell exist no one actually goes there...Go to any big city and you only find diversity in Catholic teaching.

St. Katherines was traditional.....

tom

Edited April 30, 2007 by ttomm46

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='ttomm46' post='1260865' date='Apr 30 2007, 04:36 PM']Actually the Catholic Church never Claimed to have A Pope as head of the Universal church till Leo declared himself head in 455AD......The Pope was known as first among equals till he took on himself the job as head of the church without consent of the East...[b]I was Roman Catholic for 45 years.[/b]
tom [/quote]


While I dont have time to argue your point, and Im sure others will, why do people assume that "I was this..." is ever a credible argument?

[Mateo el Feo]

I don't want to side track the topic too much. If you'd like to discuss the Primacy of the Pope, it's probably better to start a new thread.

Suffice it to say, Denzinger's "The Sources of Catholic Dogma" cites writings which predate 455 AD, in which the Pope is understood as more than a mere "First among equals" (at least more than the Orthodox interpretation). Online sources such as Catholic.com have even more quotes.

[ttomm46]

I've read most.. i first signed on here to support what we have in common..but Roman Catholisim has grave errors such as indulgences..it's legalistic.

immaculate conception..1854 pope Pius the 9th I believe..Purgatory..Salvation through works..Theology has changed over the centuries.....I'm just telling why i left..I never believed a piece of brown or green felt would be giving me indulgences

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='ttomm46' post='1260865' date='Apr 30 2007, 05:36 PM']As far as unity evry single Catholic church i attended in Denver was preaching different things.

St. Dominics was all about Liberation theology..Had women giving homalies....Spirit of Christ Catholic church..Fr' Ken Leone, actually told me in confesssion that i didn't have to tell my sins because Jesus forgave me..they were charasmatic....They actually had the Lynn Brothers..Two priests speak and say that if Hell exist no one actually goes there...Go to any big city and you only find diversity in Catholic teaching.

St. Katherines was traditional.....

tom [/quote]All the way back to the beginning, in fact, abuses and heresies have occurred (just look at all the Church Councils, papal letters, etc). If a local priest is not Faithful to the Catholic Church's teachings, this in no way suggests a diversity of beliefs with no central authority.

For a secular comparison, look at US law. Plenty of people break US laws for one reason or another, yet no one suggests that alternative US governments exist which are equally valid to the real Federal Government.

It may be that each Orthodox priest can invent his own version of Orthodoxy. But, in the Catholic Church, priests have no right to lead the Faithful away from the Church's teachings. When they do, it is rightly considered scandalous.

[ttomm46]

What you just said is total garbage..We don't invent things like you people do.....I haven't met many Catholics who even attempted to live as Christians.....If you want me to list heresies of the Roman church just tell me.

You make statements that show your an ignorant person claiming each priest makes up his own thing..Sorry that's a Catholic practice.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='ttomm46' post='1260895' date='Apr 30 2007, 06:04 PM']I've read most.. i first signed on here to support what we have in common..but Roman Catholisim has grave errors such as indulgences..it's legalistic.

immaculate conception..1854 pope Pius the 9th I believe..Purgatory..Salvation through works..Theology has changed over the centuries.....I'm just telling why i left..I never believed a piece of brown or green felt would be giving me indulgences[/quote]You've read most...what?

As for the machine-gun list of grievances. They have no place here in this thread, whose topic is moral issues, not theological issues. If you truly have a theological point of disagreement, start a thread and make a solid case for your assertion. Suffice it to say, we disgree with your mischaracterization of the Catholic Faith.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='ttomm46' post='1260900' date='Apr 30 2007, 06:09 PM']What you just said is total garbage..We don't invent things like you people do.....I haven't met many Catholics who even attempted to live as Christians.....If you want me to list heresies of the Roman church just tell me.[/quote]No, there is no possible way to have a coherent debate regarding a list. Pick your strongest arguement. Otherwise, a new thread won't go anywhere. If you have any more theological issues with the Catholic Church, please understand that that is outside the current thread's topic and [i]start a new thread[/i].

If you'd like a suggestion for a single argument, let's start with marriage. You defend the "three strikes you're out" practice of Orthodox. I'll defend the indissolubility of Catholic marriage. Would you like me to start the thread?

Edited April 30, 2007 by Mateo el Feo

[RezaMikhaeil]

1.) Orthodoxy doesn't "allow 3 marriages"! That's a far misconception, orthodoxy does allow for second marriages but it's a matter of circumstances. If a woman is cheated on by her husband, and is declared to be "the innocent party" involved, she has the option to remarry or if possible the option to stay with her husband with hopes of giving it a second opportunity.

Reza