Question I Would Like To Ask A Catholic Too...

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Staretz' post='1258625' date='Apr 28 2007, 07:32 AM']She doesn't believe in the biblical doctrine of Purgatory. So they'd probably go directly to Hell. They would not pass GO, they would not collect $200.[/quote]
No, no, she means that the Holy Spirit is dealing with them here on earth, convicting them of sin, etc. Because he or she is "saved" they won't be going to hell.


I always thought the whole idea of once-saved-always-saved was a huge cop-out though. It just doesn't jive with our natural sense of justice and order, but so many get around that by saying that someone who commits a serious mortal sin was "never saved to start out with." Please.

[homeschoolmom]

So how would you ever know that you are not actually saved?

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1258643' date='Apr 28 2007, 08:13 AM']So how would you ever know that you are not actually saved? [/quote]
You wouldn't. You would really never know.

The thing is, we are very much like the prostitute the prophet Haggai marries ... we fall again and again, and through our sins break fellowship with God and our brothers and sisters. It is by God's grace, through confession and absolution, that our relationships are restored, both with him and with others. The parables of the prodigal son, the lost coin, and the lost sheep all illustrate this same concept, that when we separate ourselves from God he longs for reconciliation with us, he woos us back to himself, but he still desires us to choose Him. We face this same choice, again and again, of whether to love God or not. OSAS denies the realities of our relationship with God, that it is not a one-time choice to love him, but an ongoing, day by day, minute by minute decision to follow or not follow, to accept his grace or to reject it.

[Starets]

I was always uncomfortable with OSAS as a tweenaged fundamentalist, for all the reasons outlined above. There were a lot of mini-confessions I would say to God. I still do as part of my own personal Compline service I came up with. But now as Catholic I have the additional grace and blessing of the sacrament of confession. I just wish I had the humility to make use of it more often.

[johnnydigit]

there must be more. it makes no sense whatsoever. there must be something we're missing. with the tens of thousands of people who believe in being SAVED, how could they not wonder or experience these inconsistencies?

we need to actually ask a knowledgeable protestant - hold on i'll be right back with one hehe

=============

ok well surprisingly so far no one can agree or give an adequate explanation. even some of the bible study groups are just more of a free-for-all, "think whatever you want to" kind of thing.

Edited April 28, 2007 by johnnydigit

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]But now as Catholic I have the additional grace and blessing of the sacrament of confession. I just wish I had the humility to make use of it more often.[/quote]

Amen.

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1259013' date='Apr 28 2007, 04:30 PM']there must be more. it makes no sense whatsoever. there must be something we're missing. with the tens of thousands of people who believe in being SAVED, how could they not wonder or experience these inconsistencies?[/quote]

This reminds me of a radio show I was listening to once. It was a local Christian station (No Catholic one sadly) where they had weekly little talks about morals and such. This one was about being saved. The woman talking was the wife of a minister of a Church. She gave her history. She had been through two religions before she met her husband, and then upon meeting him he showed her the true "faith". She then accepted Jesus and was 'saved'. She married him and for about 10 years they lived happily ever after. Then one day, she was talking with her friends about another woman who had recently made an 'altar call' when it struck the woman. She wasn't truly saved. She couldn't believe it! She never realized, that over the past 10 or so years, she had never truly given her life over to Jesus. Yes, she was 'strong' in her faith, she lived a good life, ect... But she wasn't 'saved'. So, she then made an 'altar call' again or whatever and 'truly' gave her life to Jesus and was 'saved' this time.

Just listening to her talk made me want to both laugh and cry. I wish they had a call in number for her, because I justed wanted to ash how she was sure she was actually 'saved' this time? She was wrong before, so how is she sure she's saved this time/

[johnnydigit]

you can make multiple altar calls? sounds like going to confession and getting a kind of absolution, except it's not certain.

well for the ones that can't find a reasonable answer, they say to rely on faith. sounds like a cop-out to me. Catholicism is based on faith and reason and everything can be explained using both, imo. they're making it sound like if you can't find reason, just have faith. how are you supposed to convert people like that? if you don't buy it, who will?

[Sojourner]

I was a Protestant for 26 years.

Yes, you can do multiple altar calls. And there is no agreement between denominations or even within many denominations about the nature of justification, the relationship of justification to sanctification, the meaning of baptism, the meaning of communion, and so on. The individual believer is led by the Holy Spirit, and comes to his or her own individual conclusions about such things. You then go through a complicated process of finding a church that most closely fits with what you believe. However, many churches have little to know written-out doctrine, leaving much to the discretion of the individual believer.

[Budge]

[quote][b]The thing is, we are very much like the prostitute the prophet Haggai marries[/b] ... we fall again and again, and through our sins break fellowship with God and our brothers and sisters. It is by God's grace, through confession and absolution, that our relationships are restored, both with him and with others. T[/quote]

Yep I agree GOMER is like the Catholic Heirarchy.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Budge' post='1259280' date='Apr 28 2007, 09:04 PM']Yep I agree GOMER is like the Catholic Heirarchy.[/quote]


yeah that's what I meant.

[Guest T-Bone]

I still find it funny that Budge has yet to tell us how many people from the question were actually saved...

[Katholikos]

In case anybody's interested, altar calls were invented in the 19th century. Not biblical, no sireeeee. Sinner's prayer? Don't know when it was invented. Not biblical, no sireee. Sola Scriptura (the Bible Alone) is our only source of faith and practice. Sure, it is. :

Once Saved, Always Saved was invented in the 16th century by Martin Luther, who wrote that if we commit adultery or murder a thousand times a day, we can't be separated from God. Forget those commandments, folks!

Hey, if you don't like what you believe, believe whatever you like!

Likos
An escapee from Protestantism

Edited April 29, 2007 by Katholikos

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1259278' date='Apr 28 2007, 08:03 PM']I was a Protestant for 26 years.

Yes, you can do multiple altar calls. And there is no agreement between denominations or even within many denominations about the nature of justification, the relationship of justification to sanctification, the meaning of baptism, the meaning of communion, and so on. The individual believer is led by the Holy Spirit, and comes to his or her own individual conclusions about such things. You then go through a complicated process of finding a church that most closely fits with what you believe. However, many churches have little to know written-out doctrine, leaving much to the discretion of the individual believer.[/quote]

converts are a gift, and some of the best catholics too. you may not know it but you guys know and understand how they think a lot better than we do, which means you can relate and explain things a lot better.

i used to be agnostic and even atheistic, and i was surprised to find that many people who grew up in the faith couldn't understand how an atheist thought. it came up when i was watching an episode of Wife Swap(?) and the show was about an atheist family and christian family, where the christians couldn't understand how the atheist mom thought and i thought it was simple.

so.. i dunno. maybe we're supposed to use our crooked pasts for good.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1259482' date='Apr 29 2007, 11:10 AM']so.. i dunno. maybe we're supposed to use our crooked pasts for good.[/quote]

That's a good thought, and I'd love to bridge that divide somehow. Right now, it's just with my own family. Hopefully someday they'll understand more why I've chosen Catholicism.