Why Europeans Left The Catholic Church

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1260893' date='Apr 30 2007, 03:04 PM']You certainly say that you're Christian. Does that mean that you're probably really a "Luciferian"?[/quote]

This would certainly explain Budge's seemingly irrational hatred towards us.

[Paddington]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1260545' date='Apr 30 2007, 11:58 AM']As for David Koresh, YOU say he did not adhere to scripture, but without an authoritative teaching institution to make that call, we literally have a "he said, she said" situation, in which what you say is, with respect, no better than your opinion.[/quote]

Suuuuuch a bad example.

[Ellenita]

I bet the popular press were spinning the demise of the Catholic church in the 1600s in England too.....

[Budge]

I dont hate anyone.

That is silly.

Anyhow do you all beleive that experts should make all your decisions for you? or that you can be led by the Holy Spirit on your own ever?

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Budge' post='1263628' date='May 3 2007, 11:05 PM']I dont hate anyone.

That is silly.

Anyhow do you all beleive that experts should make all your decisions for you? or that you can be led by the Holy Spirit on your own ever?[/quote]


I've been led by the Holy Spirit many times, still do. It just so happens the same Holy Spirit that is speaking to me, is also speaking through the Catholic Church. So therefore, we're in agreement. Ta-da!!!

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Budge' post='1263628' date='May 3 2007, 09:05 PM']I dont hate anyone.

That is silly.

Anyhow do you all beleive that experts should make all your decisions for you? or that you can be led by the Holy Spirit on your own ever?[/quote]

Since there are multiple Protestant denominations, we must assume one of the following two things:

1. The Holy Spirit is sending out conflicting, confusing messages about the truth.
2. The Holy Spirit only sends out one message of truth, and the Protestant denominations have got it wrong.

And let's not delude ourselves about "experts." Which "experts" do you listen to: Dr. James Dobson? Billy Graham? Ralph Reed? Ted Haggard?

[Aloysius]

no, budge is a theological anarchist and doesn't listen to any experts.

there is a divine and infallible framework of Revelation God has sent us through the ages; complete in His Sacred Scripture, complete in the Revelation of Jesus Christ; and the Spirit of Truth guides His Apostles and all their successors such that we can be assured completely of a trustworthy framework of truth; and need not go around searching in the dark for what this or that scripture "actually means"; because to really know what it actually means, you need to be an expert in Ancient Semitic Culture and the Hebrew and Greek languages as well as all the idioms of Greek and Hebrew and how Hebrew idioms translate into Greek and the entire history of every decision about translating this or that word... et cetera... otherwise you cannot be sure you have encountered what the Original Author intended to say; and even with all that knowledge, you still might not get it. But we can trust the Living Tradition, guided by the Holy Ghost into all Truth. Our God is so personal and loving that He made it so that we had somewhere to go to trust that the Truth had been passed down through all the ages.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Budge' post='1263628' date='May 3 2007, 11:05 PM']Anyhow do you all beleive that experts should make all your decisions for you? or that you can be led by the Holy Spirit on your own ever?[/quote]

Of course the Spirit can speak to someone individually, but the Spirit never contradicts Scripture or Tradition.

After hearing on a recent Daily Breakfast podcast about priests who didn't even know how to give the sacrament of Reconciliation, I think it's painfully obvious why Catholicism is dying in Europe.

[Budge]

[quote]no, budge is a theological anarchist and doesn't listen to any experts.[/quote]

Define "expert"

Name one "expert" that is NOT Catholic....{dare ya}

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1264649' date='May 4 2007, 08:09 PM']Define "expert"

Name one "expert" that is NOT Catholic....{dare ya}[/quote]
The Holy Spirit...He was never baptized, so He's not Catholic, and He's the expert the entire Church follows. :

Budge, all human experts in the ways of God either eventually become Catholic or die on the way to becoming Catholic.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Budge' post='1264649' date='May 4 2007, 10:09 PM']Define "expert"

Name one "expert" that is NOT Catholic....{dare ya}[/quote]
That was in response to the listing of various "experts" of "protestantism"... I was just saying you don't listen to those folks either (actually, I was defending your consistency)

[Jnorm888]

Budge, the modern world is going the way it is because the Agnostics and Atheists are using Darwinism, Nietzschism, philosophical Naturalism and monetary materialism to axe the roots of Christianity.








INLOVE Jnorm

Oh .....I can't the forget the new bug of post-modernism

Edited May 6, 2007 by jnorm888

[desertwoman]

Word. From Reza's last post with the vid of O'Reily, the statics are staggering in Europe with how many people don't believe in God period.

[Ellenita]

The secular press loves it when people buy into the idea that the church is dying in Europe (and elsewhere) but the church has and will continue to prevail.... our history teaches us that - look at the examples where the Catholic church has survived incredible repression - in Eastern European countries under the soviet bloc; in England under Tudor times; and English repression in Ireland and Scotland.

It's true we may see some people who are weak in their faith through bad teaching leave the church, but hasn't Pope Benedict already warned us about that and urged us to do something about it by teaching our young people about the faith?

I don't believe God will abandon His Church in Europe; I do believe He calls us to pray for one another.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ellenita' post='1266318' date='May 6 2007, 07:40 PM']The secular press loves it when people buy into the idea that the church is dying in Europe (and elsewhere) but the church has and will continue to prevail.... our history teaches us that - look at the examples where the Catholic church has survived incredible repression - in Eastern European countries under the soviet bloc; in England under Tudor times; and English repression in Ireland and Scotland.

It's true we may see some people who are weak in their faith through bad teaching leave the church, but hasn't Pope Benedict already warned us about that and urged us to do something about it by teaching our young people about the faith?

I don't believe God will abandon His Church in Europe; I do believe He calls us to pray for one another.[/quote]
The difference here is that the Church is dying in Europe (and to a lesser extent in North America), not for the most part because of external persecution (indeed, as the examples you mentioned show, the Faith grows from the blood of martyrs), but because of lukewarmness, apathy and indifference from within - as the Pope has pointed out, many people now simply regard the Church and religion as irrelevent to their lives.

The Church can survive the harshest external government persecution, but can she stand up to the internal decay and indifference from within?

The Church will prevail, but this does not mean that the Church is not currently in a serious crisis - one that comes largely from within, not from without. People are not falling away from the Church in Europe because of external force, but out of their own free will.