Internet Confessions

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1256080' date='Apr 25 2007, 11:29 AM']Even the non sacramental aspect, that is the broken openess of confession, would not exist in writing. I can write whatever I want, but i am not as open and exposed as in confession. Now, I drive out of state to a priest that is dear to me in La Crosse. He does not have a confessional booth, but we go into his office close the door and talk, we perform the rite, and we council. Often there are tears, and that is somehting I crave when I go without confession. It is a real edifying and beautfiul thing. Net-confession lacks that.[/quote]
I totally agree ... I think that what's beautiful about it is it emphasizes the relational impact that sin has on our lives. It's easy to think that my personal sin affects only me, but being forced to talk about my sin in a relational exchange emphasizes the fact that sin creates rifts between us and other people and between us and God. Then there is the beautiful picture of the restoration of the relationship with God -- I love that aspect of confession so much, the reconciliation, of knowing I am back in fellowship with my Creator. It's good to know that I can get that kind of forgiveness from him, even if my brothers and sisters are not always so generous.

[Aloysius]

I agree... just pushing buttons to clarify the exact reasons; ie is it only that the absolution must be done in-person or must the actual material confession of the sin also be done in-person.

so if the confession of sins must be by voice; and the absolution must be in-person; what of confessing your sins to a priest over the phone and then coming in to receive absolution, would that be valid? is all that is necessary that the priest know what sins he is absolving, or must the word of the penitent be done in-person as well as the word of absolution?

again, I totally agree that it's not a good idea, just think these are interesting little probes to understand the nature of the sacrament; and while tears may be good they do not necessarily speak to the sacrament's nature; just like the feeling one gets after communion is all well and good but the nature of the sacrament is not affected if one does not have that feeling.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Everyone look at canon 960:
[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3F.HTM"]http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3F.HTM[/url]

What are the other means?

[Socrates]

[quote name='thedude' post='1256013' date='Apr 25 2007, 08:49 AM']An opinion:
I think there is a dimension to in-person confession (way the person sounds, movements, etc.) that would be lost that could give the priest better insight as to the person's struggles. There is no emotion, crying, or the like in an email either. Would kill the sacrament! [/quote]
Just to clarify (though I'm pretty sure I know what you mean), emotion, crying and the like is irrelevent to the validity of Confession or any other Sacrament (though at least imperfect contrition is necessary - i.e. sorrow for one's sins and purpose of ammendment).

Otherwise, what everybody else said - the Church has already ruled against the validity of any kind of "distance" sacramental confession (by telephone, mail, and the like), and internet "confession" would clearly fall under the same category.

[N/A Gone]

We dont know but something "happens" when in person. I wouldnt risk losing that.

[ReinnieR]

The Code of Canon Law says:

Can. 960 Individual and integral confession and absolution constitute the sole ordinary means by which a member of the faithful who is conscious of grave sin is reconciled with God and with the Church. Physical or moral impossibility alone excuses from such confession, in which case reconciliation may be attained by other means also.

This canon repeats the rule of Sacramentum Paenitentiae from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith about the need for individual and complete confession being the only ordinary means of confession.

The sacraments are human meeting points with the sacred and hence the church has answered in the negative the points that you have raised. It is a face to face encounter with the Divine grace.

Pope John Paul II put it this way

32. Following the suggestions of the Second Vatican Council, the Ordo Paenitentiae provided three rites which, while always keeping intact the essential elements, make it possible to adapt the celebration of the sacrament of penance to particular pastoral circumstances.

The first form-reconciliation of individual penitents is the only normal and ordinary way of celebrating the sacrament, and it cannot and must not be allowed to fall into disuse or be neglected. The second form-reconciliation of a number of penitents with individual confession and absolution-even though in the preparatory acts it helps to give greater emphasis to the community aspects of the sacrament, is the same as the first form in the culminating sacramental act, namely individual confession and individual absolution of sins. It can thus be regarded as equal to the first form as regards the normality of the rite. The third form however- reconciliation of a number of penitents with general confession and absolution-is exceptional in character. It is therefore not left to free choice but is regulated by a special discipline.

The first form makes possible a highlighting of the more personal- and essential-aspects which are included in the penitential process. The dialogue between penitent and confessor, the sum of the elements used (the biblical texts, the choice of the forms of "satisfaction," etc.), make the sacramental celebration correspond more closely to the concrete situation of the penitent. The value of these elements are perceived when one considers the different reasons that bring a Christian to sacramental penance: a need for personal reconciliation and readmission to friendship with God by regaining the grace lost by sin; a need to check one's spiritual progress and sometimes a need for a more accurate discernment of one's vocation; on many other occasions a need and a desire to escape from a state of spiritual apathy and religious crisis. Thanks then to its individual character, the first form of celebration makes it possible to link the sacrament of penance with something which is different but readily linked with it: I am referring to spiritual direction. So it is certainly true that personal decision and commitment are clearly signified and promoted in this first form.

From: POST-SYNODAL
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
RECONCILIATION AND PENANCE
OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS
CLERGY AND FAITHFUL
ON RECONCILIATION AND PENANCE
IN THE MISSION OF THE CHURCH TODAY

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='thedude' post='1256522' date='Apr 25 2007, 09:47 PM']Everyone look at canon 960:
[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3F.HTM"]http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3F.HTM[/url]

What are the other means?[/quote]
oops i didn't see that you already quoted that.

[Church Punk]

they have internet confession?

[Sojourner]

no

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='kateri05' post='1255879' date='Apr 25 2007, 12:13 AM']"laying on of hands" is part of the sacrament. no good on the phone/internet/etc [/quote]

Laying of hands is not part of the sacrament. [i]Extending hands over[/i] the penitent while pronouncing the formula of absolution is all that is necessary (Rite of Penance 19).

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1257157' date='Apr 26 2007, 05:22 PM']Laying of hands is not part of the sacrament. [i]Extending hands over[/i] the penitent while pronouncing the formula of absolution is all that is necessary (Rite of Penance 19).[/quote]

Priests never extend their hands. There is a screen dividing the penitent and the priest unless you are going to confession in a Medieval church which was built before the invention of the confessional.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1258319' date='Apr 27 2007, 06:59 PM']Priests never extend their hands. There is a screen dividing the penitent and the priest unless you are going to confession in a Medieval church which was built before the invention of the confessional.[/quote]
Or unless you go to a church built in the last 45 or so years... and you know it.
You've never heard of anyone making a face to face confession? Someone calling for an appointment to meet with Fr. in his office? Going to confession with a spiritual director?

[the Apologist]

no- i used to joke with a priest about this sort of thing... like, what if i just fax you my sins? or mail them in? we could make repentance post cards that go only through the Vatican mail or something "official" like that...

No, this can't be. The problem i see is in the seal of confession and the grace of God flowing through the priest... it's like seeing Mass on T.V. on Sunday instead of going to Mass in person... it's just not the same. It is is only "ok" to "attend" Mass on t.v. if you are very ill and unable to attend (and for that matter you wouldn't even need to see it on t.v. because your illness would free you from the Sunday obligation) But is never the same as attending Mass in person.

And anyway, confession is about the person coming to God, through the priest to confess remorse for his/her sins and make a pledge of repentance... now if it was though the internet, the closest you could get to that which is experienced in the confessional is in a chat room because at least it is done in real time. If it were by email, you would write it in your sins and repentance of them, but then you wouldn't receive the forgiveness until later, when you get the response. But in any case, as with the chat rooms, nothing is same as when you are talking to another in person, even if it is through a screen for anonimity sake. And as was stated already, the priest needs to determine if the person is really repentant, something impossible to really determine in an email or chat room because someone can write something that are the right words with the wrong disposition.

But besides all of this, there is really no excuse to not go to a priest unless you are in a country where the Church is persecuted and there are very few priests. And even then God knows your desire to confess to a priest and if you made a "perfect act of contrition" (sorry for your sins because the offended God- not just because of the fear of Hell-which is very hard to determine) then you are forgiven but you still need to confess your sins to a priest the next chance you get.

Anyway, i'm glad you mentioned it because i'm sure many people think of this.

Heck, i may do a song about this topic some day!
www.catholic-rap.com

[Pontifite 7 of 10]

I was just wondering because a while ago I was desperate, but I'm good now, and Its not like I've done it.

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1258319' date='Apr 27 2007, 06:59 PM']Priests never extend their hands. There is a screen dividing the penitent and the priest unless you are going to confession in a Medieval church which was built before the invention of the confessional.[/quote]

Its in the rite...#46.

I make sure all the priests that I have celebrate penance at the parish I work for extend their hands.

Most people opt for a face-to-face confession at my parish, but even with a screen, the rite calls for extension of hands.