Truth Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 If everything hangs on the statement Jesus made to Peter can someone tell me what happen to the work and churches the other apostles build? Revelation 21:14 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. If Jesus didn't for get the other 11 why do you. --------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Larry writes: If everything hangs on the statement Jesus made to Peter can someone tell me what happen to the work and churches the other apostles build? Revelation 21:14 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. If Jesus didn't for get the other 11 why do you. We don't forget the other eleven Apostles. The fact of the matter is, the Catholic Church is the only Church that can claim to come from any of the Apostles, since it is the only Church that can trace its historical roots to the Apostolic Era. The Catholic Church is the City of God with the Apostles as Her twelve foundations and Christ as Her cornerstone. It is the only Church that can validly make this claim, the only Church that can validly claim Christ's promise that He will be with Her all days -- since She is the only Church who can historically trace Her roots to Christ Himself. Among the twelve foundations of the Church, though, you must admit that St. Peter was given a special place. Jesus said to St. Peter, and not to the other eleven, that he was the rock upon which He would build His Church. Somehow, in the other thread, you say that St. Peter was a stumbling block that Christ had to overcome in order to build His Church. But that isn't at all consistent with this verse, or the verses surrounding it (since St. Peter was named the rock upon which the Church would be built because he had received divine revelation directly from the Father). Do you have any evidence to support your claim that St. Peter was a stumbling block for the Church, rather than the rock upon which the Church would be built (which is what Christ Himself called him)? I'm sorry, but your position here doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 If everything hangs on the statement Jesus made to Peter can someone tell me what happen to the work and churches the other apostles build? Revelation 21:14 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. If Jesus didn't for get the other 11 why do you. --------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved Ephesians 2:20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, Cyprian of Carthage "[T]he Church is one, and as she is one, cannot be both within and without. For if she is with [the heretic] Novatian, she was not with [Pope] Cornelius. But if she was with Cornelius, who succeeded the bishop [of Rome], Fabian, by lawful ordination, and whom, beside the honor of the priesthood the Lord glorified also with martyrdom, Novatian is not in the Church; nor can he be reckoned as a bishop, who, succeeding to no one, and despising the evangelical and apostolic tradition, sprang from himself. For he who has not been ordained in the Church can neither have nor hold to the Church in any way" (Letters 69[75]:3 [A.D. 253]). "The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]). ... On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]). Dear Truth, You've been told many errors about what the Catholic Church teaches. Please stop going by the rumors, and find out the facts about the Catholic Church. It's very frustrating when people attack our Church with lies that they've been told about our Church. The other Apostles were Bishops in the Church. Please forget everything you've ever been told about the Catholic Church by a non-Catholic. Please come here and simply ask "What do you teach about ...." You will find it much easier to dialog. Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Truth yet again you make a blanket statement completely forgeting about the Eastern Orthodox Communion - sinse they aren't in the West most Protestants tend to forget about them anyway. Good Friday I think you forgot about these too. This is from a final research paper of my former girlfriend for her World Religions Class last semester. You should be able to verify all these from this website's links http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodo...rches/index.htm The Five Ancient Patriarchies 1.Rome (The Roman Catholic Church est. by St. Peter the Apostle) 2.Constantinople (est. by St. Andrew the Apostle and St. John the Evangelist in Istanbul, Turkey) 3.Antioch (The Syrian Orthodox and Antiochian Orthodox Churches est. by the Jerusalem Apostles) 4.Alexandria (The Coptic Orthodox Church in Egypt est. by St. Mark the Evangelist) 5.Jerusalem (est. on Pentecost by the 12 Apostles) Autocephalous & Autonomous Churches Babylon (The Chaldean Catholic Church in Baghdad, Iraq) Kerala (The Malankara Orthodox Church of India est. by St. Thomas the Apostle) Moscow (The Russian Orthodox Church est. by St. Andrew the Apostle in Kiev and the Slavic Sts. Cyril and Methodius) Armenia (The Armenian Church est. by St. Gregory the Illuminator through the Patriarch of Constantinople) Venice (The Roman Catholic Patriarchy of Venice est. by St. Mark the Evangelist) Lviv (The Ukrainian Orthodox Church est. in Kiev by St. Andrew the Apostle) Ethiopia and Eritrea (The Ethiopian and Eritrea Orthodox Churches est. by the Ancient Patriarchy of Jerusalem) Numerous Nations in Asia Minor, Eastern Europe, and the Middle East (called by their national or cultural names and linked to one of the Five Ancient Patriarchies) I believe there are a few more, but all these churches have Apostolic Succession. St. Peter was the leader of the Apostles, the Bishop of Rome aka Pope aka the ROCK and he is given primacy. This was the Universal 'Catholic' Christian Church before the Great Schism of 1054. Claiming Christianity began at the Reformation is a serious blasphemy against the martyrs and apostles and saints that died converting the pagans in the name of Jesus Christ. They all have an Eastern Catholic counterpart that remains loyal to Rome. Wherever you got this statement Truth throw your source in the trash or burn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traichuoi Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 If everything hangs on the statement Jesus made to Peter can someone tell me what happen to the work and churches the other apostles build? Revelation 21:14 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. If Jesus didn't for get the other 11 why do you. --------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved yea, the other churches the apostles built were the first Catholic churches...all in obedience to Christ's appointment of Peter's authority... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Ironmonk, thanks for the verse from Ephesians and the citation from Cyprian's writings. M.SIGGA writes: Truth yet again you make a blanket statement completely forgeting about the Eastern Orthodox Communion - sinse they aren't in the West most Protestants tend to forget about them anyway. Good Friday I think you forgot about these too. This is from a final research paper of my former girlfriend for her World Religions Class last semester. You should be able to verify all these from this website's links I didn't forget about those churches, and you're right, each of them was established by a different Apostle. That said, the unified City of God described in Revelation, with the Twelve Apostles as its foundation, is the Catholic Church. Those other churches you mention were originally Catholic patriarchates and churches. You point that out in this paragraph of your post: I believe there are a few more, but all these churches have Apostolic Succession. St. Peter was the leader of the Apostles, the Bishop of Rome aka Pope aka the ROCK and he is given primacy. This was the Universal 'Catholic' Christian Church before the Great Schism of 1054. I think we agree on this issue and are saying the same thing. I failed to mention the Orthodox Church and the Five Patriarchates, not because I had forgotten them, but for the sake of simplicity. I'm glad you pointed them out, though. As you said, prior to 1054, these were all Catholic patriarchates and churches. I pray for the day that they will be again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willguy Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 If everything hangs on the statement Jesus made to Peter can someone tell me what happen to the work and churches the other apostles build? Revelation 21:14 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. If Jesus didn't for get the other 11 why do you. --------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved One word: bishops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 i wonder how long we'll have to wait for a reply now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 One word: bishops. I just took a look at this thread and was going to write the EXACT SAME THING. Way to read my mind 12 hours in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 btw I didn't post this originally, but the Chaldean Catholic Church was established by St. Thomas the Apostle on his way East. i wonder how long we'll have to wait for a reply now..... bring it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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